Sanemi’s First Reason To Hate Giyuu Is That He’s So Fucking Pretty

So, I’ve been thinking a lot about spideytorch lately (as I am one to do) and a question popped into my head:

What is the most important spideytorch comic panel?

There’s a ton of great options in my opinion, but I think there also is an answer (at least for me) so now I am going to subject all of you to my thought process. Get ready for a way to long post breaking this down.

The most obvious starting point has to be this classic

Johnny Storm is going full house husband for Peter Parker, I mean c’mon! add in the fact that he’s in his undies and the way that he’s leaning over peter… yeah this is a classic. This might be the most famous spideytorch panel out there, but I don’t think it’s the most important one.

Another classic (but more antagonistic?) one takes place, of course, at the usual place.

To me this is peak identity shenanigans and the stuff that fanfics are made of. The betrayal, the heartbreak, the complications that go into the conflicting way these two view identity, oh boy I could talk about that shit for hours, but as an individual moment, it doesn’t really crack most important for me, it needs a bit more affection (they’re very bad at affection sometimes).

Another panel that came to mind very quickly for me is this set.

Johnny literally only had to say his name and Peter knew exactly what he meant and what he needed. This is top tier levels of communication, both between them and from the creators to us. I think this is another one that I could talk about for hours. That being said, it doesn’t feel important enough to me.

A friend in the spideytorch discord server posed this panel as the most important spideytorch moment in the comics.

I’m just gonna put their quote in cause it’s great. “I think this is one of my favorite panels cause Johnny was just speaking generally and Peter was like ‘oh my god! Actual wise words form johnny’ but also, I love that this was a more important moment for Peter than Johnny.” I must say, this entry is extremely important to spideytorch and gave my choice a run for its money. I don’t have a huge reason for not making this one the most important, other than personal taste. For their relationship, this is a key moment and sets them on the path to actually being friends (at least on Peter’s end), but idk it just wasn’t doing it for me.

Another panel I was reminded of thanks to this submission was this moment.

It’s not quite as impactful as the past one by a long shot but I do think it’s important. After being rivals for so long, to see Johnny give a genuine heartfelt compliment to Peter is fantastic (haha). This feels like the other half of the previous set of panels. There we had Johnny encouraging a stranger and here he’s encouraging his friend.

Some other friends in the discord server suggested the moment that Johnny invites Peter over to watch his sex tape (yes this is canon).

(Not pictured, Peter swinging away and saying he needs to take a cold shower). Now I’m not saying that the most important spideytorch moment needs to be serious, but I think this moment might be too unserious to claim that title. This moment was huge for the fanbase because holy shit did, he actually say that, but for their relationship, I just don’t think it was as important as it was to us.

Now I do want to knock out a few honorable mentions that I would hate to miss.

First, this look given to Spidey by Johnny, I mean yeah, he’s in love.

And to balance the lovesick flirty scales I must expose Peter as well.

Next, this heartbreaking moment that basically admits to the audience that Peter’s world becomes chaos when he loses Johnny. That shit hits.

Of course, the moment that gave us the ship name.

A panel that lives in my head rent-free because honestly marvel what were you attempting to convey here other than the fact that Peter really wants to have hate sex with Johnny Storm?

To take us outside of our duo, this quote from Ben Grimm (EDIT: it’s was Peter’s clone Ben Reilly, which honestly only adds more drama), because honestly same.

And of course, I have to include the panel which showed us the first time (on page) that Peter told Johnny he loved him AND gave us canon proof that these two have “date night,” many a fic writer was fed well.

And how could we forget! THE USUAL PLACE! Literally any panel mentioning this is top tier because its so good, like the core of the fandom honestly.

Lastly, before moving on to my own more serious contenders I have to share this parallel that @sciderman shared because I love it.

Now to my serious contenders for the title of most important spideytorch panel (please remember this is all my opinion and I mean no shade). This will be a top 5, but just know some of these rankings are pretty flexible (even flexible with some panels from the beginning), and this question should not be taken as seriously as I am taking it, I am fully aware of that.

Number 5!

So, I know that I discounted the sex tape scene earlier because I didn’t think it was serious enough and it didn’t do enough for their actual relationship, but I had to include this one I’m sorry. A lot of this is personal taste but the implications here are *chefs kiss* The first time I saw this panel was actually on Pinterest with the caption “wait a second, did spider-man and the human torch have sex?” which says it all for me.

Beyond that, this moment also shows how they reach out to each other when they have problems. Strange children show up in Peter’s life and the first person he calls about it is Johnny. Again, this is not the most serious, but I love it. This moment shows the banter of their relationship, how they care about and rely on each other, and also potentially reveals that they’ve had sex. There’s a lot to take in.

Number 4!

I will be honest with you all, this moment is here almost entirely because Ben’s quote lives in my head rent-free. Everyone around them sees how they feel about each other besides them. When they were rivals others could tell they actually liked each other and when they became friends others could tell that it was deeper than that. I think I especially love this panel because it conforms that we’re not crazy for thinking there’s something there but also because Ben specifically cites the way Johnny looks at peter. That is very specific and says a lot. I can’t imagine Ben would say this if the looks Johnny gave Peter were purely platonic, and just ahhhh, there’s so much said here just in one line from Ben. There was of course the Ben moment earlier, which I also love, but something about this one, the more specific phrasing of it I think just shoots it up my rankings a lot.

Number 3!

If you’ve been following me for a while I don’t think this is a surprise at all, I have already done a very in depth post about this panel so I’ll keep my thoughts brief. Red Skull knows that hurting Johnny will hurt Peter, Peter’s Spidey senses go off FOR JOHNNY, and we are given so much angst potential, I love it.

Number 2!

This one is probably a more popular choice than my number one, and I totally get it. The excitement and joy bursting out of Peter when he finally realizes that Johnny is here, he’s real, and he’s alive really gets me. Plus, the added context to the uniform comment being that Johnny literally left Peter his family and his spot on the team in his will. The amount of pure love in this moment and its larger context is abundant, platonic or romantic, it’s there. I feel like everything I could say about this panel has probably been said before, but it is definitely worthy of being the most important spideytorch moment, even if I have one that beats it for me.

Number 1!

For those of you who don’t know, this panel comes from Peter visiting Gwen’s grave and talking to her. That fact alone breaks me in half but then the things he says to her shatter me. Every spider-man fan knows how much Gwen’s death broke Peter, it destroyed him to lose her. Just the fact that Peter admits Johnny brings part of him back is amazing (haha) because that is a hug feat. But then he shatters me even more with his final sentences. After Gwen’s death, we often get a peter who spends too much time as Spidey in order to avoid having to cope with Gwen’s death as Peter, but also as a way to cope with the loss (he’s a complicate man). Spideypool also gets a lot from that arc because of Wade’s reaction to Spider-Man not holding back as much and becoming less of a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, and that’s true. The fact that Peter feels like he’s becoming who Spidey is supposed to be again when he’s around johnny is huge! But then! He corrects himself. He’s not Spidey again, he’s Peter. The real person, the man behind the mask, comes back. And then you get the final correction. He’s not just peter again, he’s *Gwen’s* peter again. He is the him that existed with Gwen when he’s with Johnny. That speaks volumes and breaks whatever parts of me are left. How am I expected to read this and not think that Johnny and Peter are soulmates?

Now, I will acknowledge that this is much more of a peter moment than a joint spideytorch moment, much like the moment suggested by discord friend earlier. If that disqualifies it for you as the most important spideytorch panel, I get it. However, for me that doesn’t matter mainly for one key reason. So many classic spideytorch moments show a lot of Johnny having feelings for Peter or making a move on Peter. There have been a lot of times when I’m trying to get a friend into spideytorch, and I feel like I have to clarify that its not as one sided as it seems. Johnny is much more out there with who he is and doesn’t hide his feelings very well (except maybe from himself). So, when we get any spideytorch moment that hones in on peter’s feelings and love for Johnny, that feels so huge to me. This moment alone proves that it isn’t one sided, Peter has deep feelings for Johnny, even if he’s not sure what they are yet, he knows that what they have is special, he wouldn’t be telling Gwen about it otherwise. While it may not be as famous of a spideytorch moment, its an important one, and for me it’s probably the most important one.

Anyway, this has been a way too long post about this topic but if you made it to the end thank you so much! I would love to hear other people’s thoughts on this topic so feel free to share those. Also, just a reminder that these are my opinions, and I am not in charge at all so don’t take it too seriously (unless you want to).

If you’re interested in hearing me, go more in depth on any of these panels (or any other spideytorch panels) shoot me an ask because I could honestly talk in depth for a while about most of these panels and I would love to do so. Thank you again for reading this way to long post and good night spideytorch nation.

If Giyuu and Sanemi actually got together, who do you think falls first? Who confesses first? Do they keep it a secret or are they proud? We all know Sanemi is loud about his dislike of Giyuu. I personally think he probably deals with his crush by lashing out (I think I sent an ask about this once before.) I guarantee he has internalized homophobia. I just want to know your thoughts and what you think would happen because your unhinged posts seriously make my day.

Oh @psyencefaction

Sorry for the long wait!

I feel like Giyuu would be the first one to fall and this is because he's more in touch with his feelings than Sanemi. His fascination with Sanemi started after Sanemi's first Hashira meeting after he lashed out at Kagaya, the unrestrained display of emotions and his ability to express what he felt so clearly reminded him of Sabito, his first love. Then when he discovered that the source of Sanemi's anger was the death of his best friend/aniki Masachika, Giyuu felt a sense of solidarity. Sanemi on the other hand might be a bit weirded out by Giyuu because of his quiet nature and social awkwardness but after a few missions together he would begin to appreciate his strength of character, his skill, and straightforwardness, it also helps that Giyuu is pretty.

I fuck with Sanemi having internalized homophobia especially with his background growing up in the slums of the city where Westernization and Western values had already taken hold of the population and I'm sure he would have gotten flak for his feminine-looking face and his role as the second mom of the family, especially from Kyogo.

Speaking of, Kyogo would also be another reason Sanemi wouldn't want to act on his feelings because growing up as a gayby under the thumb of an abusive father (the first man in his life) would damage his future relationships with men. It could even be the reason Sanemi is so anti-authority and why he projects this aggressive, hypermasculine image which coupled with his size serves not only as a means of protecting himself from getting hurt but also a means to drive people, especially men, away and Giyuu is no exception. This could also be the reason why his friendship with Obanai works so well because Obanai is not threatening physically, and he has a subdued personality compared to the one of someone like say Uzui.

Sanemi would develop a sort of fascination with Giyuu because of his unusually chill and quiet nature, which would develop into full-blown feelings that would creep up on him. Along with Giyuu's positive qualities and his quiet, chill nature, he's also non-threatening; he's not loud, violent, or portrays any other 'toxic' masculine traits that would trigger Sanemi's fight-or-fight response or remind him of his dad. So to curb this growing desire, he lashes out as Giyuu which serves not just as a way to drive the other man away but also as a way to satisfy his confirmation bias that Giyuu is just as toxic as all the other men he's known in his life when Giyuu eventually lashes out.

But my man Giyuu ain't like that. He's level-headed, steadfast, calm, sweet, and unbelievably kind if not a little bit dense. After he learns of Sanemi's love for ohagi to Sanemi's embarrassment, I bet he'd be at Sanemi's estate gate every morning with a package of ohagi, like Tanjiro(bestest boy ❤) did for him, but he doesn't realize its significance and what it means to Sanemi. Ohagi means love, comfort, care, and safety, and Sanemi's regular consumption symbolizes his inner desire to be taken care of.

At first, Sanemi ignores Giyuu's attempts but Giyuu with Tanjiro's encouragement wound persists. Imagine him following Sanemi around with the ohagi gift until Sanemi finally snaps and confronts Giyuu, ready to square up for making fun of him.

Giyuu in an amazing stroke of wisdom would explain to Sanemi that he wasn't and would never make fun of him which would lead to the big confession telling him that he wants to make ohagi for Sanemi forever and stuff. Sanemi would be stunned into silence as his emotional walls begin crumbling down because Giyuu is essentially communicating his desire to take care of Sanemi along with the promise that he would never hurt him and that he would always be safe. Giyuu would tentatively move closer and closer until he was so close that their noses were practically touching, he'll look into Sanemi's eyes asking for permission, and after a small nod from the other man would press his lips against Sanemi's in a passionate kiss.

Their relationship would be gradual because of their demon-slaying duties with only a few secret makeout sessions here and there. The first time they have sex would be a big deal for Sanemi not just because it puts him in a vulnerable position but because he's surprised at how soft Giyuu is with him. Sanemi is used to being treated roughly, by others and especially by himself but never has he been treated with such...care. Not by anyone, not even his mom, and here's Giyuu treating him like he was made of glass. Even though he was physically bigger than Giyuu at that moment he felt small but in a good way and most of all, he felt safe. The overwhelming emotions will make him shed tears that'd make Giyuu worried at first but touched after reassurance from Sanemi. Their lovemaking would be sweet and passionate as they explore each other's bodies.

I love to focus on Sanemi's POV not just because I'm a Nemi-hoe but also because I'm not worried about Giyuu being taken care of. Sanemi is a caretaker by nature so him doting on Giyuu is an undisputed given, the main work is him letting others take care of him. I'd like to think of Sanemi making Giyuu meals, always asking if he's eaten and inviting him to his house for meals. Their relationship would be healing for both of them as Giyuu gets to be a protector of sorts and Sanemi gets to be the protected...of sorts.

Anyway, I think their relationship would be an open secret because let's be real people especially the other Hashira would notice that their arguments have reduced and Obanai has even seen Sanemi smile at Giyuu much to his confusion. The main tea would be spilled by the Kakushi who would see Giyuu leave Sanemi's residence in the early hours of the morning, the both of them eating together with Sanemi lovingly wiping crumbs from Giyuu's face with a shockingly soft expression on his face and on one occasion accidentally heard moans coming from Giyuu's bedroom window when they came to deliver dinner.

Maybe Genya would come over to Sanemi's residence for the usual notice-me-aniki visit and stumble upon Sanemi sleeping with his head in Giyuu's lap. Giyuu would notice him, put a finger to his lips, and smile softly at Genya's shocked expression. He would back out of the house slowly so as not to wake Sanemi 50-parts shocked but 50 parts touched that his Aniki had someone and Sanemi looked so...peaceful. He can come to beg for Aniki crumbs another time.

I made extra content using the Gakuen! Here they slept together after a night patrolling the school, their relationship was found out the next morning while the teachers were cleaning the staff room.

sorry it took so long, I hope you like it! 😖

missing them so bad actually omg.........

Sanegiyuu Makes So Much Sense!!

I absolutely adore the ship of Sanemi and Giyuu and it never fails to confuse me when people say they don't understand why people ship them or when people say it makes no sense, especially when compared to other ships. I understand it's one thing to personally not ship Sanegiyuu because obviously it's just not for everyone and other people prefer other ships, but I definitely feel like I can confidently say that the ship makes a ton of sense from a character perspective. 

Firstly, Sanemi and Giyuu have this mutual interest in each other that just isn't displayed when Giyuu or Sanemi interact with the other Hashiras or just others in general. While Sanemi loves to say that he hates Giyuu’s attitude he could just as easily just ignore him and leave him alone since he ‘dislikes him so much’. But clearly Sanemi has some sort of interest with Giyuu as seen when he gets so worked up when Giyuu tries to leave the Hashira meeting after it was over in comparison to the other Hashiras who albeit showed care for Giyuu’s abandonment, they all remained seated except for Sanemi who tried to physically force Giyuu to stay. If Sanemi really did dislike Giyuu’s presence he wouldn't have cared if Giyuu left or stayed but the fact that he wanted him to stay shows he does care about him even if it was negative at first. Then there was their whole sparing scene in which Sanemi apparently stormed to Giyuus house to try to talk to him or at least get some kind of reaction out of him which clearly shows Sanemi’s abnormal obsession with Giyuu whether it be his actions or trying to understand him. Then when Tanjiro 'interrupted’ the two fighting Sanemi seemed to gain a new layer of protectiveness that he clearly didn't have while fighting when he noticed Tanjiro’s presence. While Sanemi seemed unrestrained and free while fighting Giyuu with an onslaught of loose movements and confident attacks as if his spar with Giyuu was a form of stress relief for him, when seeing Tanjiro and realizing his spar with Giyuu was being perceived by another he immediately put his borders back up. Sanemi immediately came to the conclusion that Tanjiro was spying on them as if their spar was a private moment between two close companions. Sanemi already seemed to get defensive when Tanjiro arrived but when Tanjiro revealed Sanemi enjoyance of frivolous things such as ohagi and green tea and Sanemi’s persona as some kind of extreme tough guy who didn't care for things such as sweets was broken obviously Sanemi started to get irritated. What's interesting about this scene though is that it isn't until Giyuu comments on Sanemi’s affection for ohagi does Sanemi crash out and punch the lights out of Tanjiro. It's just so obvious that Sanemi was embarrassed that Giyuu could think he's soft which just provided another example of Sanemi caring what Giyuu thinks of him when he clearly does not care when it comes to others. It's just too funny how much Sanemi cares about Giyuu to the point where the scene right before THE ENTIRE INFINITY CASTLE ARC AND THE DEATH OF SO MANY CHARACTERS he is literally just storming off and steaming at the thought of “what would have happened if Tanjiro didn't interrupt”.

It’s even more hilarious that Giyuu, the character that is literally known for being antisocial and having no friends, just wants to be Sanemi’s friend. Giyuu has Tanjiro and Shinobu and definitely a few others who are trying or have tried desperately to befriend him with absolutely no reaction but apparently Giyuu decides that he wants to befriend the unapproachable guy with anger issues who says he dislikes him. I'm sorry but that is such homosexual activity I don't even know how else to put it. Like Sanemi literally barged into Giyuu’s house, fought him, knocked his little brother out, and stormed off without a word, and all Giyuu can think of afterward is how happy he is to know Sanemi’s favorite food and is already coming up with a sad plan to win him over. This dude is really smiling and all thinking of his perfect future interaction with Sanemi with floating flowers in his little fantasy. I also just love the idea that he uses Tanjiro as his little wingman to help come up with ideas to win Sanemi over that all probably fail miserably just like the ohagi. 

Sanemi and Giyuu have been set up from the beginning and you can see the future of their relationship from the fact that Giyuu’s voice was enough to distract Sanemi enough to get hit by Tanjiro who was a much lower rank than himself in the scene of Nezuko’s trial. The characters have been set up as parallel characters throughout the series in so many ways it's hard to not spot the special relationship between them that isn't there between other characters. Their character design and personalities are already foil with Sanemi’s white hair and impulsive and explosive personality compared to Giyuu’s black hair and calm and collected personality. There is Sanemi’s ability to speak his mind at all times and Giyuu’s inability to speak his mind at times at all. There is Sanemi’s main emotion and expression being one of anger with Giyuu’s being sadness. Another big foil being Giyuu’s compassion and trust towards Tanjiro and Nezuko and their situation while acting as an advocate for them while Sanemi had clear mistrust towards them and their situation acting as their biggest opponent during Nezuko’s trial. Finally, there is the fact that Giyuu’s fighting style is one that revolves around ultimate defense while Sanemi is one that focuses on the ultimate attack. Just by noticing their opposites you can tell the importance of their relationship, but this continues throughout the series in which they are the ONLY two hashiras to survive which was definitely done for a reason. Their relationship is also displayed during their clash to turn their blades red showing their status as equals. The fact that they are the two last Hashiras ties them together even more seeing as after the war they both kind of don't have anyone to lean on besides themselves with the Kamaboko squad all living together and the Uzui’s having each other, Sanemi and Giyuu don’t have some big family to stay with, so they hang out with each other as seen in the panel why their having lunch together.

Out of every non canon ship I truly think thank Sanemi and Giyuu have the most developed and well written relationship down to basic characterization to where these two seem like they were really made together as a pair. Even though they aren’t canonically romantic, their relationship is written better than some actual cannon ships and I think some people should look more into the smaller details when it comes to this ship!

fic fixing

hi guys! My fic: The chaos of Peter's life and everyone discovering it is going to go through a little bit of editing this next 2 days, that means I'm trying to fix all my grammar mistakes I've made in the past chapters! I've already fixed (it's probably not perfect but I've tried) the first 4 chapters! So if you reread it and find that some things have changed it's bcs of that! (I've added some little parts and changes some others)

https://archiveofourown.org/works/58383460/chapters/148703167

I'll also probably add a new chapter in this time period, bcs where I'm from we're having a 4 day weekend so I'll try to be productive!!

Unhinged observation

The many voices of Sanemi

In Genya's flashback, one of the things people talked about was how unnaturally deep Sanemi's voice was, which by the way is not all that surprising. Sanemi is five years older than Genya and in the flashback Genya looks to be around 9/10 years old which puts Sanemi at 14/15 years old(Sanemi's just small for his age, probably due to malnutrition), and it's not uncommon for boys to have deep voices around that age.

But anyway, something I noticed is how Sanemi's voice changed when he told Genya to run as he tackled their mother out the window. His voice sounded like that of an actual kid. He probably deepened his voice to sound more like a father figure, so his siblings feel safe, but when they were put in actual danger the facade dropped and all we heard was the voice of a scared child.

We also see the same thing when the Ubuyashiki mansion exploded, I'm surprised no one is talking about Sanemi's small gasp after the mansion blew up. For just a fraction of a second he was back to being that small, scared and confused child he was when his mother attacked the family.

We also have the low, rough voice he uses with Tanjiro, Genya, Giyuu and the other junior slayers which is supposed to project this tough and scary image.

Then we have the low but somewhat normal voice that he uses when he talks to Obanai and Muichiro, as well as when he talks to the Master and Amane.

All this gets me excited for Soft Sanemi's voice that he will use when talking to his mom, Nezuko, Genya and when he talks to a dying Masachika (and probs Giyuu).

reunited with photoshop and my tablet after months of using my ipad !!! loaded kyles brushes and fucked around and here we are! two bros napping together

NEW CHAPTER

Hi!!! I just posted a new chapter of my spider-man AU MCU+marvel 616, spideytorch, team red, anti iron dad fic!!! It contains some shenanigans with May, Wade and Matt. Some MJ (Michelle) and Pete starting their friendship and some group chat shenanigans!! Any questions I'll be glad to answer!!

I actually hate writting dialogue... So sorry guys but that's something this fic will sadly lack...

Unhinged theory

If Tanjiro(bestest boy ❤️) hadn't interrupted

It started with a series of blows and jabs from Sanemi. Giyuu managed to block them all until Sanemi swiped a leg under him, tackling him to the ground.

Sanemi then straddled him with a fist curled in the collar of his uniform and the other one poised above his head as if to strike.

"Why do think you're better than us?!" Sanemi cried "Why do you insist on being alone?!"

Giyuu didn't answer. He couldn't answer. What would he say? That he wasn't able to save Sabito? That he didn't deserve to be a Hashira? That he felt like a fraud?

"Say something!" Sanemi cried again shaking Giyuu slightly by the collar as if he could shake the answer out of him.

For a moment everything stopped and all Giyuu could focus on was Sanemi.

For the first time he looked at him, really looked at him. He took in the large, jagged scars across his face made even more severe by the redness of his skin. He took in his wide, bloodshot eyes slightly obscured by the bangs that fell across his them. He took in the droplets of sweat running down his face from his temples. He took in Sanemi's expression, full of anger accentuated even more by his the crease on his eyebrowless temple. He took in everything.

Sanemi was wild. He was fierce, he was feral, he was...

"Beautiful"

Sanemi eyes widened and let out a small gasp, so faint that Giyuu wouldn't have heard it if he wasn't so close.

In one swift move Sanemi was off him and took a few steps back as if to distance himself from the word Giyuu uttered. His bangs obscured his face making his expression unreadable.

None of them said anything, the only noise to be heard was the soft rustle of the trees. Then in a small, rough voice Sanemi asked.

"What are you talking about?"

"I didn't mean-" Giyuu whispered struggling to get words out but what could he say?

He hadn't meant to say the word out loud. He hadn't even known when it passed his lips.

"I didn't-" He tried again but Sanemi turned and left.

His movements so swift and quick, it seemed like he disappeared. His haste leaving Giyuu in a gentle whirlwind of dust from the training grounds.

Giyuu stood in the silence for a few minutes then he picked up the broken pieces of the wooden katanas and made his way back to his mansion.

*I'm not a good storyteller, please be gentle 😖

average early spideytorch interaction