I'm Absolutely Obsessed With Laios' Logic That The Other Shapeshifters Made Mistakes The Real Party Members

Do you have a page with the characters favorite foods?

I remember that Laios likes cheesecake.

They all have a section for their favorite food in their bios too! Kabru's is tomato (weirdo), Laios is actually listed as dairy products (from cow) I'll list them here

Laios

Likes: Dairy products (cow)

Dislikes: Cephalopods

Marcille

Likes: Seafood, nuts

Dislikes: Bizarre foods

Chilchuck

Likes: Liquor (especially ale)

Dislikes: sweet side dishes

Senshi

Likes: Monster cooking

Dislikes: Empty calories

Izutsumi

Likes: Fish, meat, crab

Dislikes: Vegetables, mushrooms

Falin

Likes: Fruit, cream

Dislikes: Nothing in particular

Shuro - Toshiro Nakamoto

Likes: Soba

Dislikes: Cheese

Namari

Likes: Spare ribs

Dislikes: Raisins

Kabru

Likes: Tomatoes

Dislikes: Monsters, elf cakes

Mithrun and Thistle have no preferences

All the other characters with profiles have the preferences too but that's a lot so I'm just listing the main ones here

On food and the memories of home and love; coming home again by chang-rae lee / a meeting by wendell berry / africa is not a country: breaking stereotypes of modern africa by dipo faloyin / the gastronomical me by M.F.K fisher / a story about chicken soup by louis simpson / cassandra: a novel and four essays by christa wolf / the orange by wendy cope / no title by @filmnoirsbian / little weirds by jenny slate / opposites attract (tomorrow w/o her) by kendrick lamar / chocolate chip pancakes by caitlyn siehl / winter morning by james crews / "civilization", then the war: and selected poems, 2007-2020 by carl phillips / the essence of peopling by sarah perry / in the house with no doors by sarah kay

My stance on Shuro discourse

Part of why I’m so defensive of the name Thistle is that I just think it fits him so perfectly and has some really interesting meaning you can assign to it outside of it just being his eye color.

Where I come from, thistles are considered a nuisance species. They have massive taproots that burrow deep underground, so once one pops up in your garden or yard you’re going to have a hell of a time removing it. The scotch thistle, like above, is considered invasive and listed as a noxious weed, and though there are many native thistle species they all tend to get lumped together by the average person.

And yet, thistles are incredibly important to their local ecosystem. They provide food and shelter for many species, especially pollinators, and are hardy survivalists. In some places they’re seen very favorably, such as being the symbol of Scotland. Their prickly nature means that few people are likely to mess with them, which makes them an effective symbol of resilience and protection.

But, despite this, to many they are just weeds. A nuisance, to be tolerated at best and exterminated with little prejudice if the wrong kind is in the wrong place to the point that it draws attention. Despite the fact that ultimately it is us humans who brought them to these new locations. I think there is no malice in simply trying to be alive.

thistle portrait keychain ft. thistle beer

plus the various other thistle ideas,,

THISTLE!!!!!!! everyone like it NOW!

"hot girl summer" LAME. BRAT MAGE SUMMER!

brat mage summer!!! 🍏

(this edit also goes out to @sunsetdeathcity since they're like the biggest thistle fan and enjoyer I know)

If you also wanna support/check out the edit on TikTok: click here!!!

I wanted to ask you if there were any notable differences with Mithrun's dialogue in a few specific scenes, or anything of note when he says "Free yourself" to Thistle, the scene with Marcille where he says, "Do you have any idea how empty that will leave you", generally speaking, when he's trying to show care and compassion and empathy, like the therapy scene, and what he says to Marcille there about love, too. I guess I'm wondering if there's any difference with how they're displayed, because, for instance, I've seen people say that he's cruel to Thistle, and I see the ruthlessness easy, but I can also read the autistic sense of justice, which, although people laud this as a "good" thing, it can be really single-minded and actually pretty unconcerned with "right" or "wrong".

It sort of has a way, to me, as an autistic person, of mirroring Laios wanting Senshi to eat the griffin—to know and be free because that's the only way forward, just. Harsher.

Also, um. His interaction with Kabru, too! When he goes on to ask him what he wants to do, or really just that panel. Their interaction. And... um? When he says about Falin, "If she wants to, she will."

Anyway, besides that, it also screams "meltdown", on a further look. He's very restless and distressed and that seems clear. I think he's kind of trying to rush out the conclusion he wants, maybe mistakenly believing he's more cool-headed than he is, and people trust him, I think, because he seems capable, I see a lot of, "he just doesn't care", but he's not very tuned into his emotions, and I think not really caring about the consequences if he can get what he really wants. Some people see malice, but I think his care is genuine, though I sort of believe he's also wanting his conclusion to happen as fast as possible—trying to force it out, and really not as stable as he may seem.

People will say "He doesn't care at all", but then I feel like...? Why try, if you don't care? And I was wondering about that, I guess.

Sorry if this is a big ask. I have Thoughts™️.

if you're asking me about japanese version, i'm sorry to tell you that i'm not that good at it :D. the only noticeable difference i see from his usual way of talking is that mithrun puts a lot of emphasis in his speech when he's trying to persuade other dungeon lords (he ends almost every sentence with [だ], which is usually a sign on emotional speech). but it's already pretty obvious from the meaning of what he says. the one that looks interesting to me is this panel, his pleading face and the way he says [お前になわからないか] "don't you understand?" works so well, it feels like he's truly empathetic here.

when people say that he acted cruel and violent, i say: yeah, and that's the point! mithrun, while being in many ways a unique character, is also an example of very old and very very common character archetype: he's a desperate and angry broken person who wants revenge and literally destroys himself in the process. it's almost impossible to write a character like that without them being cruel or cold or uncaring to other people, would any kind of redemption and healing even be interesting to see if they were perfectly nice, well-adjusted person?

the only reason to even talk about this is to analyze the cycle of cruelty traumatized people often find themselves in. to see how horrible the impact truly is, because kui does a great job portraying this. mithrun didn't even start as a good person, he was already at a pretty bad place mentally before his trauma. and guess what, any form of mental illness and trauma doesn't usually make you a better person, even if it changes you. when you have no desires, it's already kinda difficult to have any love, patience or care for people. what kind of person anyone would be when they don't wanna have friends, to love, to be loved, to live, to do literally anything? while also being constantly dehumanized by everyone, even people who technically care about them? actually, we know, because it happens in real life all the time.

but here's a thing. surprisingly, mithrun tries to care. he tries to care about civilians, he doesn't even kill people who wanted to kill him (kabru did, for example. don't know why people forget about this, pretty easy comparison to make). he tries to care about his squad: he always does the most dangerous job himself. he tries to care about other dungeon lords, because he feels compassion towards them, so he always gives them a choice.

but i love that kui makes him stay true to his character: he's an asshole, he doesn't have desires anymore, he's depressed, but he tries to care... and he fails and gives up. all the time. and he ends up hurting people because he gave up. idk, i find it incredibly relatable. and i think it's kinda weird to "criticize" mithrun for that, he's just a character that we're clearly supposed to empathize with, and we all one day or another find ourselves in similarly dark place in life. and there's something hopeful in his story, he didn't ask to be loved, but people loved him anyway – and he learned to accept this love. doesn’t happen as often in real life, unfortunately.

i don't blame anyone for not knowing that Thistle was Literally Trafficked and that Freinag's advisors bought him and presented him as a gift because Freinag threw a baby tantrum because he wanted an elven servant as a living conversation piece, and that from the very beginning Thistle's purpose in the Melini court was "cute exotic pet for Freinag to show off"

because it's all in supplemental material. because the only person in the comic who knows this for sure is Thistle.

we can't completely assume that what Yaad tells Laios and co is 100% of what he's been told by Delgal, and that he isn't leaving things out or massaging the story into a convenient shape to position Thistle as an antagonist who must be stopped, because he's certainly canny enough to do that

but i think we can pretty comfortably imagine that it could be everything Yaad knows, and that if it's not, it's still probably pretty close to the story Delgal has told him. and it's fairly clear that Delgal has presented things in a certain light, characterized Thistle in a certain way, and from there we have to wonder: how much of that is on purpose?

certainly some of it is, because Delgal is very avoidant and the actual truth of the matter is that he shares a significant portion of the blame here, but all of it? i could very easily see Delgal not knowing that his father bought and owns Thistle. from his perspective, Thistle's just been there since before he was born and was a constant and loving companion - and confidante and caretaker - throughout his life.

so if Delgal doesn't know, then how could Yaad? and how could anyone else know if Thistle isn't going to tell them, and why would he?

the comic about how Thistle came to court and the elf cake comic are, i think, two of the most crucial pieces to understanding Thistle, because when you take them together, what you get is:

Thistle was abandoned at birth. between his birth and when Freinag's advisors bought him, someone raised him, fed him, clothed him, taught him to speak, and taught him how to play a couple of instruments well enough that he could entertain a king. whoever did that then - after twenty-odd years of being the closest thing he had to a family following the separation from his birth parent, something which he wouldn't be able to consciously remember but which would nonetheless have left him with a visceral and entirely subconscious belief that He Can Be Abandoned At Any Time And If That Happens He Will Die, because that's what happens to babies that are left alone - sold him.

so by the time he was the human equivalent of 5 or 6, he'd been taught that nothing is permanent, no one loves him enough to keep him, he will be abandoned, and that ultimately he is both a commodity and a curiosity, and any hope of having a home or being cared for depends on pleasing whoever owns him.

to make matters worse, Freinag didn't even like him at first. he scowled and sulked and the advisors, over Thistle's head, told Freinag that they needed to make sure he was harmless, that he was a perfectly impressive status symbol, and to just make sure he didn't get too attached. and Freinag proceeded to sulk for at least a couple of days (two different outfits on Thistle) before deciding he liked him.

Thistle didn't even have a name when he was bought. what did he spend the last 20-odd years of his life being called? how long did it take for Freinag to warm up enough to give him the cat-you-found-in-a-dumpster-ass name he ended up giving him?

no fucking wonder he latched onto the Melinis as hard as he did. no wonder he was so obsessively devoted to Delgal, the closest thing he had to a friend or someone who treated him as an equal. he was abandoned, bought and sold as a status symbol, told quite explicitly that he would only be tolerated as long as he was harmless and entertaining, and loved like a pet until Freinag had a real son.

no wonder he was so eager to prove himself. no wonder he would have done anything Delgal said. no wonder that he rewrote reality itself to try to keep Delgal safe and happy. no wonder he's so scared all the time - he has to have been scared his whole life, desperate to belong and horribly aware of just how easily he could be discarded, starving for love to fill the gaping primal wound in him from the kind of abandonment he experienced.

no wonder his idea of love is to keep people smothered and trapped, like birds in a cage. that's the only kind of love anyone ever showed him.

what if thistle had confronted senshi before the story started?

Hello!

Would you have a collection of the instances where they talk about Mithrun’s noodle shop?

As far as I know it is mentioned only twice, once when they're trying to cheer him up so he has a new dream and once when Cithis asks "weren't you gonna open a noodle shop" in the second life extra

Actually now that you mention the "shop" part wasn't said out loud, I guess it came from the visual in Laios' imagination? Lemme know if I forgot any!