Yo I Feel Like The Idea That The Only Historical Women Who Counted Are The Ones Who Defied Society And

pastel mugs

lots of people seem to forget strikes are SUPPOSED TO negatively impact the economy and inconvenience people. that's how you force the company to give into your demands. it's hitting them where it hurts hardest--their profit.

People really think that Sansa lying at trial on Trident to save her bethrotal. As if Sansa words could change the decision that was taken by king. They really think Sansa had power similar to the adults around her. When Ned told the truth, it didn't have impact then why king and queen will take Sansa words for evidence. If Sansa had told the truth, Cersei could easily debunk it by saying she is just a child and her confession was probably influenced by Ned. No one cared about her condition.

What's fun about this whole discussion is that everyone who condemns Sansa for being a liar ignores the minor detail that we don't know what Sansa was going to say because she was interrupted.

His eldest daughter stepped forward hesitantly. She was dressed in blue velvets trimmed with white, a silver chain around her neck. Her thick auburn hair had been brushed until it shone. She blinked at her sister, then at the young prince. "I don't know," she said tearfully, looking as though she wanted to bolt. "I don't remember. Everything happened so fast, I didn't see …"

"You rotten!" Arya shrieked. She flew at her sister like an arrow, knocking Sansa down to the ground, pummeling her. "Liar, liar, liar, liar."

"Arya, stop it!" Ned shouted. Jory pulled her off her sister, kicking. Sansa was pale and shaking as Ned lifted her back to her feet. "Are you hurt?" he asked, but she was staring at Arya, and she did not seem to hear.

The next time Sansa speaks is at the end of the hearing when she begs for Lady's life. We don't know what all Sansa would have said because she only had the chance to speak 13 words.

This is similar to what happened in Arya I where Arya assumes the worst and loses her temper. It isn’t a coincidence that the pattern repeats. The author purposefully inserted that. And if Sansa was already nervous, after being tackled and beaten, there was no way she was going to recover and intervene with the truth. Let's reread that initial paragraph:

His eldest daughter stepped forward hesitantly.

First, we’re told she told Ned the truth earlier, and I think we can infer from her behavior here, he didn't coach her or assure her that the truth is what she should say. From the get go, she doesn't know what to do.

She was dressed in blue velvets trimmed with white, a silver chain around her neck. Her thick auburn hair had been brushed until it shone. She blinked at her sister, then at the young prince.

Oh, interesitng, she’s torn, she knows she is choosing between one or the other, that speaking is choosing a side.

"I don't know," she said tearfully, looking as though she wanted to bolt.

She is in way beyond her depth. Saying she doesn’t know can read as a simple “I don’t know what happened” but it is also true in the sense that she clearly has no idea what to say here.

"I don't remember. Everything happened so fast, I didn't see …"

I’m not convinced this is entirely a lie. Arya believes it is because she is primed to judge Sansa harshly, but the reader knows things Arya doesn’t. Namely, Sansa had been drinking. I do think it was hard for Sansa to comprehend what was happening in the moment and still hard for her to explain/talk about it after, not only because of the drinking, but also because of the suddenness of the escalation. It did happen fast. And, we aren’t privy to what she was going to say she “didn’t see” or what all she would have finally said (a defense of Arya or a condemnation of Joffrey) because she was stopped by the impact of a furious Arya. Describing what happened as Sansa lying (to me) gives a totally different impression than what I have when I read this section, and I think if you compare this to Arya’s first chapter you notice that while Arya assumes the worst about Sansa, we don’t necessarily know that she’s right to do so. In fact, I think knowing how Martin likes to play the POV game with us, and some of the other uncharitable things she thinks about Sansa, I’d say we know Arya isn’t right. Arya assumed Sansa was about to totally defend Joffrey, but being that Sansa already told Ned the truth, I don’t think she was about to lie. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Regardless, the choice to ignore Cersei and Robert’s roles here, the real point of the scene IMO, is very odd. Continuing:

"The girl is as wild as that filthy animal of hers," Cersei Lannister said. "Robert, I want her punished."

"Seven hells," Robert swore. "Cersei, look at her. She's a child. What would you have me do, whip her through the streets? Damn it, children fight. It's over. No lasting harm was done."

The queen was furious. "Joff will carry those scars for the rest of his life."

Robert Baratheon looked at his eldest son. "So he will. Perhaps they will teach him a lesson. Ned, see that your daughter is disciplined. I will do the same with my son."

"Gladly, Your Grace," Ned said with vast relief.

Robert started to walk away, but the queen was not done. "And what of the direwolf?" she called after him. "What of the beast that savaged your son?"

The king stopped, turned back, frowned. "I'd forgotten about the damned wolf."

Ned could see Arya tense in Jory's arms. Jory spoke up quickly. "We found no trace of the direwolf, Your Grace."

Robert did not look unhappy. "No? So be it."

The queen raised her voice. "A hundred golden dragons to the man who brings me its skin!"

"A costly pelt," Robert grumbled. "I want no part of this, woman. You can damn well buy your furs with Lannister gold."

The queen regarded him coolly. "I had not thought you so niggardly. The king I'd thought to wed would have laid a wolfskin across my bed before the sun went down."

Robert's face darkened with anger. "That would be a fine trick, without a wolf."

"We have a wolf," Cersei Lannister said. Her voice was very quiet, but her green eyes shone with triumph.

It took them all a moment to comprehend her words, but when they did, the king shrugged irritably. "As you will. Have Ser Ilyn see to it."

"Robert, you cannot mean this," Ned protested.

The king was in no mood for more argument. "Enough, Ned, I will hear no more. A direwolf is a savage beast. Sooner or later it would have turned on your girl the same way the other did on my son. Get her a dog, she'll be happier for it."

That was when Sansa finally seemed to comprehend. Her eyes were frightened as they went to her father. "He doesn't mean Lady, does he?" She saw the truth on his face. "No," she said. "No, not Lady, Lady didn't bite anybody, she's good …"

(AGOT, Eddard III)

Jaime says later that Cersei meant to have Arya’s hand which means Arya was in danger here and Ned’s reaction confirms that the author intended us to understand that in this moment. However, Lady’s fate is decided by the dynamics of Cersei and Robert, not by the events at the Trident, but Robert’s obsession with Rhaegar and Cersei’s ability to press his buttons. Not even Ned’s intervening could save her which is why I believe we’re meant to understand this scene works primarily as a continuation of the discussion of justice and how the king fails to deliver it. It also is the beginning of Ned’s downfall (taking an innocent life, a gift of the gods), and the crack in Ned’s relationship with Sansa leading to her disobedience later, but I just don’t think the point is that Sansa did something wrong. So, I agree with you that it’s silly for people’s takeaway to be that Sansa could have stopped this if she wanted. If she told the unvarnished truth it could have fed Cersei’s fury and made her demand Arya be punished more insistently and there’s no telling how much effort Robert would have put into refusing her. I think we’re meant to understand that the situation is very precarious, so precarious even Ned wasn’t sure that Arya was safe.

I wrote this in defense of Sansa a while ago

and I really think readings in which Sansa is made responsible miss them entire point of justice and injustice, Sansa as a representative of innocence, and instead substitute in a very simplistic view that does nothing for the characters or themes (link).

And of course, the association the girls have with their direwolves that Martin just established must be ignored in order to make Sansa somehow guilty here too

so I don’t think it’s stan nonsense to push back on the idea that the author intended for us to find Sansa culpable here. There are lots of reasons to doubt that (link).

To me, there’s no reason to think this ends in a better way, no matter what Sansa said, but the fact remains that Sansa was stopped before she had a real chance to relay what happened, and based on the previous interaction of the girls, based on the emphasis on Lady’s innocence and the connection between the direwolves and their girls, I think we’re meant to know better than assume that Arya’s interpretation of Sansa is correct.

Bear sploots

first of all none of us could afford hannibal’s therapy

Anyway with anti-sodomy laws back on the discussion table I'm going to repeat that you can personally be squicked out by the consensual sex someone else has, but saying that their consensual sex between willing, active, adult participants should be illegal and is indicative of some sort of moral failing is L I T E R A L L Y a major facet in extreme homophobia and absolutely has gotten people killed.

You don't have to like their business but as long as everyone involved in the encounter is saying yes, it's also really not your business.

This is the precident you are helping further by digging your heels in and saying 'but I think it's gross and makes them bad people'. This is what happened last time that was the reasoning for law, and what is being threatened to happen again.

@masuli1101 haista paska

Vko 36

"Mul on viel toivoo"

"Mä en tykkää lukiosta"

"Perseseksi ennen liukkarin keksimistä o varmaa ollu tosi epämukavaa"

"Vitun kristityt"

"Kannatti kävellä"

@tinyclosetedgirl oli mustasukkanen paperille, kosk lässytin helpolle matikan tehtävälle

Hanging out with old people rules because after a while they trust you enough to confess to murder totally unprompted

but it’s SO clear that visenya and rhaenys did 99% of the actual conquering and ruling and aegon was just a convenient man to be king. this is why grrm’s work is so compelling and frustrating in turns—he’s WILDLY aware of how gender and gendered violence in feudalism works, but there’s always just one element of critique missing even though he’s clearly aiming to criticize feudalism. and women keep dying in childbirth! and the princess of dorne is still unnamed! and we know more about tyrion’s missing uncle than minisa whent or joanna lannister combined!