I Think Miles Feeling Like His Father Would Be Disappointed In Him Is Far More Interesting If He Came

I love this so much oh my god, why is Mia Fey so neglected sometimes in this fandom. You've given me a lot to think about, thank you.

I noticed Mia's bitterness when I played through 3-1 for the first time. She is so brutal in insulting Phoenix. And she reacts quite strongly when she finds out Phoenix had been lying on the witness stand.

The fact that both Mia and Phoenix react very poorly to betrayal or to what they think is betrayal... I need to personally analyze all of this under a microscope.

"Of course she told him to fake his smile, or he can't do anything. She's been doing that since she was ten years old." I'm sobbing.

Is it just me or is this piece of advice from Mia, "for a lawyer, the worst of times are when you have to force your biggest smiles", really sad?

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing inherently sad about it. I get that it's about not giving up, pushing through impossible odds and rock bottom for your client. Because for most people, being a lawyer is a just a profession.

But for someone like Phoenix? Someone who hides their pain behind saving others, who never talks about their trauma, who (subconsciously or not) considers being a lawyer not just a job but their entire identity...? All of a sudden, Mia's advice isn't just about the courtroom anymore, because for Phoenix being a lawyer was always about being good enough and able to save people. To Phoenix, Mia's advice is about pretending you're fine, not letting anyone see how you truly feel or else you can't save anyone.

I agree with everything you said, Azalea! Also here's the exact quote from Farewell My Turnabout:

(You really let me down…) When you disappeared, I felt… betrayed. The reason I decided to become a lawyer to begin with… Was because I believed in the things you said to me, all those years ago… And you… You betrayed your own words. That's why… one year ago, I made up my mind. I decided that the Miles Edgeworth I knew had died… …At least, that's what I told myself.

This line from Phoenix is so so interesting and akdjfdjhskjfdgjh I want to sink my teeth into it. One day, I will write a longer analysis on this but...

No matter if Phoenix truly thought Miles was dead or not, I think this quote makes it clear that Phoenix decided that Miles was dead to him. Phoenix couldn't handle the abandonment, the fear that after everything he did people would still inevitably leave him. So he turned to resentment and killed off "the Miles Edgeworth I knew". Because if Miles had always been the "Demon Prosecutor" obsessed with guilty verdicts (which is what Phoenix keeps accusing him of in 2-4), then Phoenix could dismiss his belief in Miles. Phoenix could dismiss all his efforts and desire to save Miles.

So Phoenix wouldn't have to deal with the pain of believing in and being attached to someone so much... only for them to leave him... again (coughs in Dahlia/Iris).

HOT TAKE: Phoenix should have known Edgeworth was still alive during the “chooses death” era. Gumshoe probably would have told him if he had asked, he was just too busy overreacting.

Lmao hello there you :P I know who you are. You probably are expecting this but I'm sorry to say:

Strongly agree | Agree | Neutral | Disagree | Strongly disagree

Yes, it's true, they didn't find Edgeworth's body, but when someone learns about a note that says the person "chooses death" I think it's difficult to say that thinking they're dead is overreacting lol. Edgeworth was gone, he was gone for an entire year, which is a long time for someone to be missing; usually at that point, if the person doesn't turn up, there's a good chance they are dead - and there was the suicide note on top of things. It's not an unreasonable thing to think, and Phoenix was grieving the best he could, so I also don't think it's very fair to expect him to be perfectly rational in those circumstances. Besides, he seems to still be struggling to accept it by the events of JFA, which honestly tracks with the fact he never got closure.

Besides... there are lines in the game implying that Phoenix did think Edgeworth was alive (something like "you were dead to me" if I recall correctly), and that he resented him for leaving, not dying. Personally I think his behaviour screams of repressed grief and denial, but the alternative interpretation is there.

Thinking about AA role-swap AUs and if prosecutor Phoenix Wright would also “choose death” and then I remembered that in Farewell My Turnabout, Phoenix tells Edgeworth it might be time for "Defense Attorney Phoenix Wright chooses death". In the bad ending where Matt Engarde is declared "not guilty", Phoenix literally wanders the streets. Before I played this case, I thought Maya dies in the bad ending which prompts this reaction, but no he doesn't even see Maya again.

The more I look at canon, the more I realize Phoenix is as much of an emotional mess as Miles is, likely even worse. Phoenix's identity has always been so tied to being a lawyer, to saving people. He condemns one innocent person (Adrian Andrews) and he completely falls apart. And honestly, the same would probably happen if he got Matt Engarde "guilty" and Maya dies. Of course prosecutor Phoenix Wright would leave like Miles did.

You literally pulled the thoughts out of my head!! I agree with everything you said about Edgeworth in 1-4. I just didn’t include it in my post because then we’d be here all day.

I think RTFA confirming that Miles Edgeworth didn't intentionally forge evidence does align with his established character in the first four cases and isn't a retcon. It does take away some audience interpretation but personally I'm fine with that.

First of all I don't think the rest of AA1 ever confirmed it one way or the other. There are a few instances where Phoenix thinks of Edgeworth as an evidence forger but it's not like Phoenix would know for sure either. (Do correct me, with specific lines please, if I'm wrong though).

But more importantly, if you only look at the first four cases of AA1 Edgeworth being an evidence forger doesn't make sense with his character. Why would a prosecutor forge evidence? Not including reasons like being blackmailed. 1) If they don't care (enough) about the truth (prioritizing things like success over it), or 2) if they truly believe the defendant is guilty and are desperate for a conviction (aka the reason Adrian Andrews forges evidence in 2-4).

Does Edgeworth care about the truth, before coming back in 2-4?

Yes, I'd say so. One thing that still kind of surprises me is just how quickly Edgeworth changes sides and begins to fight for the truth. It happens at the end of 1-3.

You could argue that Edgeworth had already lost once to Phoenix and thought "screw this, my perfect record is already gone, another loss wouldn't change that fact". But compare him to two characters who are actually obsessed with their perfect records. Manfred, a perfectionist control-freak, getting a penalty (not even losing!) unraveled him so much that he killed Gregory in the heat of the moment. Franziska after losing in 2-2 declares that: "That spirit channeling trial was a sham! I refuse to acknowledge its legitimacy! It did not count!" She doesn't even want to admit that she lost. Edgeworth, on the other hand, doesn't act like someone who truly prioritizes his win record over the truth.

Because Edgeworth didn't just let himself lose in 1-3, he made himself lose. He made Vasquez testify again. She would have gotten away if Edgeworth didn't say anything. And after the trial he tells the judge "Will Powers was innocent. That he should be found so is only natural… not a miracle."

Okay but if Edgeworth does care about the truth, and believed that every defendant being guilty was the truth, he could have easily gone down the path of forging evidence to ensure the verdict reflected what he believed to be true. That leads me to my next question:

2. Does Edgeworth truly believe that every defendant he prosecutes is guilty?

Actually no. He says this in Turnabout Sisters: "Innocent"...? How can we know that? The guilty will always lie, to avoid being found out. There's no way to tell who is guilty and who is innocent! All that I can hope to do is get every defendant declared "guilty"! So I make that my policy.

Yeah I think that line speaks for itself.

Miles Edgeworth's duality pre-redemption is this: he cares about the truth, but he's lost faith in finding it. So he commits himself to getting guilty verdicts because he believes that's the best shot he has at enacting justice, even if he accidentally convicts innocent people from time to time.

And to me that aligns with his reaction to finding out he unknowingly used forged evidence in 1-5. Edgeworth was so disillusioned with finding the truth that he has accepted that some collateral damage would inevitably happen as a result of his mindset. However, because he still can't let go of his dedication to the truth, he wouldn't want to lie or rewrite the facts to achieve his verdicts.

This is literally how I view the wrightworth relationship progression through the trilogy.

Phoenix is 100% more emotionally constipated than Edgeworth is and I will stand by that.

Space to share a headcanon you rotate in your brain like a rotisserie chicken

I have a very specific idea how the mitsunaru ship dynamic goes:

Also that one headcanon about Phoenix suppressing his college self means everything to me...

The idea of him getting back to that mentality for a moment and trying to backpedal out of embarrassment is just

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Phoenix believes in people but he doesn't trust them, oh my god you're so right. I think it's more so that he believes in the ideal, rather than the person themselves, at least as time goes on or for people he doesn't know well. The ideal of being an attorney, the ideal that people need to be saved.

I think what I love the most about AA is that characters have a duality to them that I don't see often in media. They have actual flaws and do actual bad things, and it's not glossed over. Phoenix is a fundamentally good person, he helps people at the drop of a hat, risks his life for them. Has a penchant for taking strays under his wing. He believes in people... but also not really. He carries a literal lie detector with him at all times, and only employs people who can also peer into other people's hearts. So is he really that trusting? Sure he trusts his clients are innocent, but he doesn't trust they will tell him the truth at all (there's always something to lie about). He believes himself naive, and that's why he works extra hard not to be. Some people think he changed with his disbarment but I feel like when he actually changed was after Dahlia. He became less and less trusting as time went on. And Phoenix actually does forge evidence and risks his subordinate's career, and he says pretty nasty things sometimes (that one time to Edgeworth had got to hurt, badly, especially if you consider that the note could have been genuine at first, which we don't know for sure), has a pretty tactless and somewhat hurtful sense of humor, brings his daughter to cheat at poker, and doesn't tell said daughter she actually has some family left alive. He's secretive, elusive and cryptic, and masks it under a false pretence of goofiness. Miles is, by contrast, very easy to read. He may appear emotionally stunted but is one of the more emphathetic characters. He realizes when he's wrong and immediately needs to correct those wrongs. He grows uneasy and uncertain and eventually recognizes when he's mistaken. By the end of it he begins to help people naturally, without even thinking about it as much as he would have in the past. He helps so many people, he has basically got Phoenix's savior complex 2.0 but the healthy kind where he doesn't jump off a bridge. But... he was also actually cruel, and did send innocent people to their graves (was he really so naive to believe whichever defendant came his way was guilty?). He feigned his death disregarding other people's feelings, and while you could say he had no obligation towards Phoenix (apart from basic decency and respect towards someone who had turned his life around to save him), he still abandoned Franziska, who was still just a kid and had just discovered her father was a psychopath. She probably thought, at some point, that the apple didn't fall that far from the tree. That's it's somehow her fault as well. He may be rude and antagonistic, frank to a fault. Isn't afraid of telling stuff to your face. But he also cares about the people he loves so much, to the point he doesn't hesitate to risk his career and break the law multiple times. He may appear a pessimist but he's pretty idealistic at heart, it's quite funny that his favourite show is about an hero of justice, isn't it? Godot is... well, we don't know much about it from before his coma, but he definitely shared Mia's sentiments for helping people in their hour of need. But when he wakes from a 6-year coma he's so broken that he just pins the blame on the most absurd person to blame it on, settles on a complicated plan, and also prosecutes on that particular murder he should just confess upon. Iris was sweet, innocent, self-sacrificing. She knew absolutely nothing about the world apart from what Bikini or her sister told her. She was naive and falsely thought she could fix everything, that her sister was salvageable, that she could save Phoenix. But she still ended up lying to the person she loved and abetting a murder. That's why I love these characters so much. They're interesting and their stories make sense. People don't remain unchanged from what happens to them. People are multi-faceted and complex. You can't sum them up in a bunch of characteristics and aspect them to act on every single one of them, always, consistently. Sometimes people break. They make mistakes they regret, ...and some they don't.

That’s precisely why Farewell My Turnabout is so so important to their relationship. It’s the case where Miles saves Phoenix <3

I cannot overstate how important Phoenix and Edgeworth are to each other’s lives. There is something so beautiful about Edgeworth’s walls crumbling before the man who picked up his father’s legacy where he couldn’t. There is so much care in the fact that Edgeworth returns to guide Phoenix when duty versus personal circumstances shake the latter’s principles to their core.

They spend their lives reciprocating each other’s acts of kindness, and it is in this eternal dance that they find comfort, trust, and love in one another.

Iris is a personal fav for me!