Send Me A Character

I think Miles feeling like his father would be disappointed in him is far more interesting if he came to that conclusion by himself instead of being "taught" to believe so by an external factor or being somehow trained to be something Gregory would have "hated" (and let's be real, Gregory would not flip a switch and hate anybody for anything, let alone his son).

Miles feeling like this by himself means there was a moment of self-reflection, even if that reflection did not reach the actually correct conclusion. It offers opportunities to explore how his brain works, themes of survivors guilt and grief that linger long after dl-6. That's interesting! That's intriguing!

What do you get from deciding there was some grand plan to form him into "a person Gregory would hate" (despite the obvious problems with that logic in the first place)? Cartoon villainy I guess? That's not very fun to explore...

Something I'm fond of saying is "The villain drives the plot but the hero sets the tone." Something that's very important about this is that the resolution to the conflicts presented need to match the hero's tone. If your story doesn't believe problems can be solved the way the hero wants to solve them... why is this the hero?

If you want your problems to be solved with brutal catharsis, then your hero should be someone who believes in brutal catharsis.

If you want your problems to be solved with forgiveness and reconciliation, then your hero should be someone who believes in forgiveness and reconciliation.

They don't have to begin there. This can be something they come around to over the course of the story, as they grow and change per their character arc. But by the time of their ultimate encounter with the villain, their values should be the values that drive the story forward.

There's this thing in D&D that some DMs do. Where, when you roll enough damage to deplete the monster's hit points, they'll turn to you and say, "That's a kill. Describe for the group how you take the monster down." And you're allowed to come up with some cool maneuver or something that your character did in order to deliver the finishing blow.

The hero's ultimate triumph over the villain is a lot like this. More than any other part of the story, this moment is their apotheosis. It should be a celebration of everything they are and everything they stand for.

You have defeated the villain; Now describe for the group what form that victory takes.

EVERYTHING YOU SAID YES

Notice that Miles never mentions following in MVK's footsteps or the "von Karma creed/blood/name" when talking about his motivations to prosecute. (Compared to Franziska who mentions it as soon as she is introduced in 2-2). Miles only talks about the DL-6 incident and his father's death and punishing himself in relation to why he became a prosecutor instead of a defense attorney.

Now I'm not saying Miles wasn't influenced by MVK, I'm sure he was. But ignoring the reasons that Miles explicitly tells us, and instead claiming brainwashing or abuse, is doing a huge disservice to both Miles's and Manfred's character.

Manfred is a petty, cowardly man who killed a man over a penalty and ruined Miles's life. And considering all the issues Miles and Franziska has, I believe he is also quite a flawed parent. Manfred being abusive, homophobic, sexist, etc however, is not canon (him calling Miles "worthless" is a mistranslation!!).

So yeah, I rest my case. Miles, Franziska, and Manfred are some of my favorite Ace Attorney characters and Manfred not being Pure Evil™️ honestly makes all the angst and pain so much more delicious.

“Manfred von Karma brainwashed Miles into becoming a prosecutor!”

*scratches head*

Not gonna lie, I was one of the people who believed in this claim until a friend told me otherwise and I started replaying Turnabout Goodbyes recently.

It's really wild to me how almost all of Manfred's mischaracterization can be tied back to Miles' mischaracterization from the AA fandom LMAO

Fandom telephone can be such a curse sometimes.

Feel free to explain your reasons in the tags! (I'm very curious)

(Edited to adjust my argument).

I think RTFA confirming that Miles Edgeworth didn't intentionally forge evidence aligns with his established character in the first four cases. It does take away some audience interpretation but personally I'm fine with that.

First of all I don't think the rest of AA1 ever confirmed it one way or the other. There are a few instances where Phoenix thinks of Edgeworth as an evidence forger but it's not like Phoenix would know for sure either. (Do correct me, with specific lines please, if I'm wrong though).

But more importantly, if you only look at the first four cases of AA1 Edgeworth being an evidence forger doesn't make sense with his character. Why would a prosecutor forge evidence? Not including reasons like being blackmailed. 1) If they don't care (enough) about the truth (prioritizing things like success over it), or 2) if they truly believe the defendant is guilty and are desperate for a conviction (aka the reason Adrian Andrews forges evidence in 2-4).

Does Edgeworth care about the truth, before the start of his redemption arc at the end of 1-3?

Yes... kind of. I don't think he prioritizes the truth or consciously cares about it. As the "Demon Prosecutor", Edgeworth cares about justice, and achieving it through punishment. However, convicting the wrong person would not be justice to him. Which is what makes Edgeworth change sides to convict the right person in 1-3. So in that sense, he does care about the truth.

You could argue that Edgeworth had already lost once to Phoenix and thought "screw this, my perfect record is already gone, another loss wouldn't change that fact". But compare him to two characters who are actually obsessed with their perfect records. Manfred, a perfectionist control-freak, getting a penalty (not even losing!) unraveled him so much that he killed Gregory in the heat of the moment. Franziska after losing in 2-2 declares that: "That spirit channeling trial was a sham! I refuse to acknowledge its legitimacy! It did not count!" She doesn't even want to admit that she lost. Edgeworth, on the other hand, doesn't act like someone who truly prioritizes his win record over the truth.

Because Edgeworth didn't just let himself lose in 1-3, he made himself lose. He made Vasquez testify again. She would have gotten away if Edgeworth didn't say anything. And after the trial he tells the judge "Will Powers was innocent. That he should be found so is only natural… not a miracle."

Okay but if Edgeworth does care about the truth (to some extent), and believed that every defendant being guilty was the truth, he could have easily gone down the path of forging evidence to ensure the verdict reflected what he believed to be true. That leads me to my next question:

2. Does Edgeworth truly believe that every defendant he prosecutes is guilty?

Actually no. He says this in Turnabout Sisters: "Innocent"...? How can we know that? The guilty will always lie, to avoid being found out. There's no way to tell who is guilty and who is innocent! All that I can hope to do is get every defendant declared "guilty"! So I make that my policy.

Yeah I think that line speaks for itself.

Miles Edgeworth can't bring himself to consciously care about or prioritize the truth, but the moment it's presented in front of him he also can't bring himself to ignore it. He doesn't think it would be just to knowingly convict an innocent person, but he's so disillusioned and distrusting of people that he's lost faith in finding the truth.

So, he commits himself to getting guilty verdicts because he believes that's the best shot he has at enacting justice, even if he accidentally convicts innocent people from time to time.

And to me that aligns with his reaction to finding out he unknowingly used forged evidence in 1-5. Edgeworth was so disillusioned with finding the truth that he has accepted that some collateral damage would inevitably happen as a result of his mindset. However, because he still can't let go of his dedication to the truth, he wouldn't want to lie or rewrite the facts to achieve his verdicts.

That’s precisely why Farewell My Turnabout is so so important to their relationship. It’s the case where Miles saves Phoenix <3

I cannot overstate how important Phoenix and Edgeworth are to each other’s lives. There is something so beautiful about Edgeworth’s walls crumbling before the man who picked up his father’s legacy where he couldn’t. There is so much care in the fact that Edgeworth returns to guide Phoenix when duty versus personal circumstances shake the latter’s principles to their core.

They spend their lives reciprocating each other’s acts of kindness, and it is in this eternal dance that they find comfort, trust, and love in one another.

(tw: mention of suicide) Did we, as a fandom, just collectively forget how ruthless Miles Edgeworth can be sometimes? And I’m not just talking about his demon prosecutor era, I mean also after his redemption arc. Because I was just playing through Farewell My Turnabout and watching him reveal Adrian Andrews attempted suicide in court after she begged both him and Phoenix not to… I was sitting there with my mouth open thinking: damn Edgeworth, was that really necessary??

And you know what, I love it. I love how he was ruthless in getting a guilty verdict in the past, and now he uses that ruthlessness to find the truth. Because I'm not just here for the traumatized, socially awkward, emotionally constipated, caring Edgeworth. I'm also here for the ruthless, intimidating, competent, morally grey Edgeworth. I'm not here for a watered-down version of Edgeworth. He wouldn't be my favorite character if he didn't have this nuance.

Miles Edgeworth is not as soft as the fandom likes to portray him <3

His ruthlessness is a constant. Even when he "chose death" it was because he made a decision to not forgive himself.

miles edgeworth, the one who starts off callous and unrelenting, but even while falling into his lowest point, declares that he has always done what he believes is right. the character whose pivotal moment in the plot involves telling the protagonist that it's through their mutual trust that they can find the truth, basically the intellectual cousin of "the power of friendship always wins," and remains an unrelenting person throughout the narrative. this is the one fanon assigned the "tsundere" label to.

franziska von karma, the one who starts off hostile and aggressive against the protagonist, but is later revealed to be doing so out of care and concern for a loved one. the character who constantly yells "baka baka baka!" in the original text, only for that angry front to crumble into a sensitive interior when facing up to her feelings surrounding the brother she cares about. this is the one fanon portrays as put together and upfront.

how did the fandom make such a grave error

Phoenix believes in people but he doesn't trust them, oh my god you're so right. I think it's more so that he believes in the ideal, rather than the person themselves, at least as time goes on or for people he doesn't know well. The ideal of being an attorney, the ideal that people need to be saved.

I think what I love the most about AA is that characters have a duality to them that I don't see often in media. They have actual flaws and do actual bad things, and it's not glossed over. Phoenix is a fundamentally good person, he helps people at the drop of a hat, risks his life for them. Has a penchant for taking strays under his wing. He believes in people... but also not really. He carries a literal lie detector with him at all times, and only employs people who can also peer into other people's hearts. So is he really that trusting? Sure he trusts his clients are innocent, but he doesn't trust they will tell him the truth at all (there's always something to lie about). He believes himself naive, and that's why he works extra hard not to be. Some people think he changed with his disbarment but I feel like when he actually changed was after Dahlia. He became less and less trusting as time went on. And Phoenix actually does forge evidence and risks his subordinate's career, and he says pretty nasty things sometimes (that one time to Edgeworth had got to hurt, badly, especially if you consider that the note could have been genuine at first, which we don't know for sure), has a pretty tactless and somewhat hurtful sense of humor, brings his daughter to cheat at poker, and doesn't tell said daughter she actually has some family left alive. He's secretive, elusive and cryptic, and masks it under a false pretence of goofiness. Miles is, by contrast, very easy to read. He may appear emotionally stunted but is one of the more emphathetic characters. He realizes when he's wrong and immediately needs to correct those wrongs. He grows uneasy and uncertain and eventually recognizes when he's mistaken. By the end of it he begins to help people naturally, without even thinking about it as much as he would have in the past. He helps so many people, he has basically got Phoenix's savior complex 2.0 but the healthy kind where he doesn't jump off a bridge. But... he was also actually cruel, and did send innocent people to their graves (was he really so naive to believe whichever defendant came his way was guilty?). He feigned his death disregarding other people's feelings, and while you could say he had no obligation towards Phoenix (apart from basic decency and respect towards someone who had turned his life around to save him), he still abandoned Franziska, who was still just a kid and had just discovered her father was a psychopath. She probably thought, at some point, that the apple didn't fall that far from the tree. That's it's somehow her fault as well. He may be rude and antagonistic, frank to a fault. Isn't afraid of telling stuff to your face. But he also cares about the people he loves so much, to the point he doesn't hesitate to risk his career and break the law multiple times. He may appear a pessimist but he's pretty idealistic at heart, it's quite funny that his favourite show is about an hero of justice, isn't it? Godot is... well, we don't know much about it from before his coma, but he definitely shared Mia's sentiments for helping people in their hour of need. But when he wakes from a 6-year coma he's so broken that he just pins the blame on the most absurd person to blame it on, settles on a complicated plan, and also prosecutes on that particular murder he should just confess upon. Iris was sweet, innocent, self-sacrificing. She knew absolutely nothing about the world apart from what Bikini or her sister told her. She was naive and falsely thought she could fix everything, that her sister was salvageable, that she could save Phoenix. But she still ended up lying to the person she loved and abetting a murder. That's why I love these characters so much. They're interesting and their stories make sense. People don't remain unchanged from what happens to them. People are multi-faceted and complex. You can't sum them up in a bunch of characteristics and aspect them to act on every single one of them, always, consistently. Sometimes people break. They make mistakes they regret, ...and some they don't.

Thinking about AA role-swap AUs and if prosecutor Phoenix Wright would also “choose death” and then I remembered that in Farewell My Turnabout, Phoenix tells Edgeworth it might be time for "Defense Attorney Phoenix Wright chooses death". In the bad ending where Matt Engarde is declared "not guilty", Phoenix literally wanders the streets. Before I played this case, I thought Maya dies in the bad ending which prompts this reaction, but no he doesn't even see Maya again.

The more I look at canon, the more I realize Phoenix is as much of an emotional mess as Miles is, likely even worse. Phoenix's identity has always been so tied to being a lawyer, to saving people. He condemns one innocent person (Adrian Andrews) and he completely falls apart. And honestly, the same would probably happen if he got Matt Engarde "guilty" and Maya dies. Of course prosecutor Phoenix Wright would leave like Miles did.