What Happened After?

Do you think Sanemi kept tabs on Genya while he was in the Corps? Like before Genya even joined? Sanemi tells Genya he’d ensure no demon would head his way in Infinity Castle, and the light novel I remember it saying along the lines of “he’d short commit murder if Genya said he’d join the Corps.” I know they never spoke upon the years separated from each other from Sanemi distancing himself, but I’d imagine he’d keep an eye on him to ensure that, right (although it obviously didn’t work since Genya joined anyway lol)? With how Genya thought he despised him, Sanemi probably didn’t send money or anything to Genya either (which I guess wouldn’t make sense in the long run.) Anyway, I just wanted your thoughts on this if it’s alright to ask! Sorry if this is long 😅

Additional thought - Do you think Masachika knew about Genya (since in the light novel we do know Sanemi told him about his mom and other siblings)?

Hiiiii! Thanks so much for your questions!

One of my criticisms about Demon Slayer are the information gaps we have regarding some characters. I think because Gotogue-sensei was in a rush to finish the novel because she had to go back to her hometown, she skipped a few things.

Yea, Genya and Sanemi's backstory is one of those gaps. Just like you said, we're never told if Sanemi was keeping tabs on Genya while he was in the Corps. In fact, we're never even told how the brothers survived after the death of their family.

Sanemi mentions going on a demon-killing rampage, but he never said anything about Genya. Where was Genya? How did he keep tabs on him? Where did they live? Did Sanemi just abandon Genya? Did he stay with a relative? What about the bodies of their siblings? How did their neighbors react?

I have a theory. Long post incominggggg!

I think Sanemi was driven out of the town and Genya was taken in by someone. Think about it, the people in the neighborhood would've heard the commotion, just to come out and see a boy brandishing a cleaver, the children in the house dead and the only surviving child yelling 'monster!'. Of course, they would think that this boy massacred his family and probably his mom too and Genya might have not been able to say anything coherent due to the trauma.

So Genya would have been taken in by a neighbor and Sanemi would be driven out. Sanemi would spend the next few years homeless, killing demons and keeping tabs on Genya to make sure he was ok. Then he encountered Masachika who got to know Sanemi's story and by extension about Genya (It's actually in the light novels, so this is canon).

During this time, I think Genya encountered a demon that was killed by a Demon Slayer and this encounter introduced him to the concept of demons, made him revisit the memories of that night and realize that his mom was a demon, and it was she that attacked his siblings and Sanemi was only trying to save him.

With this realization, he becomes tearful, breaks down and tells the slayer his story. The slayer asks for his name.

"Shinazugawa?" said the slayer, "Is your brother by any chance named Sanemi?"

Genya looks up at the slayer, his eyes filling with tears. "Yes! Yes he is!" he stands up and grabs the slayer's uniform in desperation. "Do you know him?! Where is he?!"

The slayer carefully unwraps Genya's fists from his uniform, he isn't annoyed. He knows that the poor boy is just desperate.

"Yes, he's a demon slayer just like me?"

"Where can I meet him?"

"I don't think you would be able to" said the slayer, "Because of our job we tend to move around a lot."

Genya drops to the ground and adopts a dogeza pose. "Please." he said through tears, "Please help me, I need to find him....how can I find him....please"

The slayer took pity on him, almost driven to tears by the pitiful sight. He coaxes Genya off the ground and wipes off the poor boy's tears.

"Okay" said the slayer, "If you want to see your brother, this is what you'll have to do."

The slayer then told him about the Demon Slayer Corps, the process of becoming a proper slayer and the final selection.

"In fact" said the slayer with a sad smile, "There's a selection happening soon. I'll tell you where to go."

Genya leaves the family he's staying with, telling them about his plans to find Sanemi. The family's like, "Aiit, see ya."

Sanemi comes over to check up on Genya as usual, but he sees that he's nowhere to be found. He panics and asks one of the family members, who tells him.

"The boy left, saying he's going to go join some Corps or something."

Sanemi eyes widened in horror. He goes to the Master, who informs him that Genya is indeed part of the selection. Sanemi panics, but he knows can't go interrupt the Selection and pull Genya out, so he waits and hopes his little brother makes it out okay.

During his wait, he then went on that mission where Masachika died, and after he finds out from his crow that Genya passed the selection. On one hand, he's relieved and glad that his little brother survived, but on the other now that Genya is part of the corps he can't guarantee his safety unlike when he was with his adoptive family.

He can't fathom losing Genya like he lost his other siblings. He can't explain this to Genya because 'men' but even if he does, there's no guarantee that Genya would listen, after all they made a pact to stick together. So, he decides the best way would be to be as horrible to Genya as possible, to basically become the monster his brother accused him of being all those years ago.

Then Genya meets Gyomei, promptly receiving the slap that changed his life.

Hope this sort of answers your question :)

average early spideytorch interaction

Unhinged analysis

Why is Sanemi so aggro? (Part 2)

This section is mostly from a class/economic standpoint and doesn't really focus on the demon attack on his family. It is also not only based on my little understanding based on the research I did about poverty and class in Edo/Late Meiji Japan but also based on my experiences as someone who grew up poverty-er-adjacent.

This blog here has an article that does a deep dive into Sanemi based on Japanese culture and history. Their work was what inspired me to do a deeper dive into Sanemi's poor backgoround. It's in Japanese but the translations are so worth it, and they have writeups on other characters!

Now lets get to it, this is post is going to be very long and very sappy, be warned.

His Background

We all know that Sanemi grew up poor, but it's poor in a way that's different from the other characters. We can attribute Gyomei's poverty to his religious faith in a way, Tanjiro and Muichiro are more modest than actually poor - at least they own their houses. The Shinazugawas had a shitty landlord whose son made fun of them for being 'the poor people with too many kids', they lived in these rundown, face-to-face, the-neighbors-know-all-your-business row houses.

Sanemi grew up in the slums with a population of citizens who were essentially 'left behind' during the rise of urbanization and industrialization. These citizens not only had to deal with characterizations that portray them as being ignorant, uneducated, boorish, dirty, aggressive, mannerless and ignorant, but also with being preyed upon by greedy landlords, merchants and businessmen. The government weren't of much help either because they would rather put in efforts into removing them as far as possible from the modern cities, away from the eyes of foreigners.

In my experience, slum dwellers rarely if ever rise above their station in life. Their lack of education and exposure prevents them from making a better life for themselves and even if they do move to the city, they are stuck doing menial or manual labor jobs with shitty pay. They spend their entire lives in perpetual poverty no matter how hard they work and how many jobs they take because they're ultimately fighting a system that has not only abandoned them but also creates policies that prevent them from moving higher in life.

Due to these frustrations, a lot of them take up gambling and drinking alcohol to cope with their sorrows. Frustrations with the system and with their situations lead to a lot of them taking up gambling and developing alcoholism to cope. There is also high rate of violence among them, especially domestic violence as heads of households who were usually the ones to go out into the world and deal with the discrimination and struggles while trying to pursue low class jobs would take out their anger on their wives and ultimately children. The children who grow up in this environment, where violence is all they know would eventually go on to become abusers themselves when they start families of their own, that is, if they don't die of illness or are killed before that.

You can read more about it here, here, here, here and here.

We can see that with Sanemi's dad, the piece of shit who took out all his anger and frustrations on his wife and children before ultimately becoming a victim of violence himself.

After his death, we see Sanemi having to take up the responsibility of taking care of the family as was culturally expected of the firstborn and the oldest boy - similar to Tanjiro. When Sanemi's dad died, he had to take up a job to take care of the family. In the scene where he talks with Genya about their dad's death and their promise to take care of their mother and siblings, we can see that Sanemi is pulling a rickshaw.

Rickshaw pullers were among the lowest classes of manual labor, they were referred to sometimes as 'Human horses' and while they were mostly known for transporting people, they were also hired by merchants and regular people to transport goods as well. We're not told of the work his mother did before she turned into a demon, but she might have been a domestic worker or a waitress of some sort. It's not hard to imagine that there were times when the kids had to go hungry.

So what's the point of all this story? Well because children who come from these backgrounds are not only often violent and aggressive in their language, conduct and personality but even if they do manage to make it to adulthood and by some miracle manage to break through the class barrier they often come out of the other side with a MASSIVE inferiority complex.

And our dear boy Sanemi has one, big time.

Now that we've talked about his background, let's talk about how all this contributes to his....

Relationships

In the fandom, the main complaints about Sanemi is his behavior towards Giyuu, Tanjiro, the demon slayer trainees and Genya, so I'm going to focus on just these.

Giyuu

Like I've mentioned before @roseameilatempest already posted a great write-up about Sanemi and his complicated relationship with Giyuu, so I'm just adding to it.

The two main things that create friction in their relationship, aside from Giyuu's inability to communicate are Sanemi's low self-esteem and his aggressive personality. The low self-esteem really showed itself when he questioned Giyuu at the Hashira meeting about his 'I'm not like you guys attitude'.

In this scene he asks

Which is a really interesting question because of all the Hashiras he's the only one who voices this sentiment. Obanai just talks about Giyuu wanting to get ahead, Shinobu just asks him to explain himself, Muichiro doesn't really care, but there's the thing about being the baby of the group so he may not want to butt-in to the 'adult' matters. Gyomei is praying.

Sanemi's the only one who stands up and confronts Giyuu about the matter but given his background as previously discussed it's almost as if he's asking "Are you looking down on me?".

From the little we know of Giyuu's backstory, he didn't grow up in poverty. After his family died, he went to go live with relatives before making the decision to leave and join the corps. He has fair skin and soft looking features in contrast to Sanemi's rough, scarred ones. He has slim, delicate-looking hands with piano-playing fingers compared to Sanemi large, knobby, rough-looking hands with early-onset-arthritis-ass fingers.

Even his conduct has a certain air of class to it. So when Giyuu says stuff like 'I'm not like other girls-I mean Hashira', the inferiority complex part of Sanemi is triggered, and he takes it as an attack on him thinking that Giyuu is looking down on him because of his poor background and his class.

But Sanemi deep down cares, even if he doesn't realize it. Instead of dismissing Giyuu as just being a dick, he tries to get an answer, an explanation, but because of his rough way of speaking and his aggressive personality it comes out confrontational. He doesn't know how to express himself in a non-aggressive way because nobody ever taught him how.

Tanjiro(bestest boy ❤)

Ah yes, Sanemi's BFF. I'm honestly surprised that some people don't understand why Sanemi does not vibe with Tanjiro. Tanjiro embarrassed him in their first meeting, only to escape the consequences for his actions because of the Master's benevolence. He questioned his worth as a Hashira which, as mentioned in the previous post, is the core of Sanemi's identity.

In their second encounter, Tanjiro(bestest boy ❤) talked back to him. Now, despite all the wacky and interesting characters, the fancy mods to their uniform with the haoris and stuff, the Demon Slayers Corps are still a military organization. They have a hierarchy, they have rules and punishments for those who break them and within the context of the military and cultural values: You don't talk back to your superiors, you don't disrespect them and you most certainly don't embarrass them no matter how in the right you feel you are. It's not fair, it just is. Some superiors may tolerate it like Tengen, Giyuu, Mitsuri and Shinobu but others, like Sanemi, Gyomei, Obanai and even Muichiro will not.

I mean, even Mitsuri complained about Genya's behavior when she first met him, even though his actions were because of him being shy.

The first time Tanjiro(bestest boy ❤) disrespected Sanemi, he was on neutral ground, the Master's mansion. Kagaya is a saint, so he understood Tanjiro's actions, but remember he also chided Tanjiro a bit, even if it was in a soft manner. Now in this second encounter, He's in Sanemi's house, in his domain, and you can't come about here disrespecting your senior in their own house. And If you do, be prepared to face the consequences.

Tanjiro(bestest boy ❤) then embarrassed Sanemi again by (rightfully) calling him out on his shitty behavior towards Genya, in public, in front of his other subordinates. He then proceeds to not only block Sanemi's punch but to counter it with an embarrassing kick to the neck, RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE SCRUBS! Like what? In some organizations, you could be penalized and immediately kicked out, but like I said, Kagaya is a saint.

That's why Tanjiro(bestest boy ❤) was given the reprimand and Sanemi wasn't. Because he was in the wrong.

The concept may seem foreign to people who grew up in the west, but for those of us from home countries that have rigid power and class structures, we know this pain all too well.

That's why you talk and complain about your superiors BEHIND their backs, like Zenitsu does.

I swear, Zenitsu is probably the realest character in the series, I love him so much 😂.

Then in the last encounter they had, Tanjiro embarrassed Sanemi again, but this time it's worse because he did it RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIS CRUSH!

Your senior's business is not your business, if you see them fighting, it's best just to leave them alone and pray it's the one you hate that gets his ass kicked.

So here's Sanemi trying to communicate with his crush, and he's about to get to the part where they get to put their hands on each other ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°). Then Tanjiro comes up and gets between them, ignoring the restraining order and then asking if they were fighting over ohagi.

He then reveals Sanemi's biggest secret: That he's gay-I-mean-er likes ohagi. Neither Tanjiro(bestest boy ❤) nor Giyuu see any problem with this because soft boys but for a tough, scary man like Sanemi this is a problem. He's a man, he shouldn't be taking sweets! (which is like a real thing in Japan, so i learned. You can read about it here, here, here and here), also Sanemi loves ohagi becuase his mom used to make it; men shouldn't be thinking about their mommies! Men should be tough and only eat manly things like raw bull testicles and cement!

Then Tanjiro(bestest boy ❤) drives the knife even further by asking him about his ohagi preferences, while Giyuu (who unknown to Sanemi is glad to have found an opportunity to rizz him up) asks him to confirm but in Sanemi's mind he thinks Giyuu is making fun of him too.

So Tanjiro has, so far, called him a shitty Hashira, a shitty brother, and now a shitty man. All he wanted to do was smash and now he's getting pressed by a 16 year old. So yea, our boy is going to react in the only way he knows how - by giving Tanjiro a swift clock to the jaw.

At this point, you've gotta pity Sanemi, he's the real victim in this relationship. But let's move on.

The Trainees

This is another complaint that also confuses me because the answer is so obvious. Why is Sanemi hard on the trainees?

Because Sanemi's training is Infinite Strikes! Because his training is supposed to be hard! Because they're at war! Because Muzan might be coming soon! Because this is a military training! Because the Hashiras are basically Drill Sergeants! Because Sanemi says fuck you!

But seriously, I don't understand why Sanemi and Obanai are getting hate for their training methods when Tengen's was just as harsh, Mitsuri was basically ending family bloodlines, Muichiro deadass was about to sashimi someone's child.

And Gyomei? Gyomei's training basically qualifies as torture by the Geneva convention laws. You see these guys below? These boys are all dead! Dead, i tell you! You can't convince me otherwise!

Even Inosuke died!

The training is meant to be harsh because it's not just the trainees lives at stake, it's the people of Japan, it's the lives of their friends, families and loved ones. The Hashiras know this and Sanemi whose whole life revolves around being a demon slayer and killer, especially knows this.

He and Obanai don't have the luxury of sending the junior slayers back for their protection like they did in the mansion. Like we saw in the last episode of the season, Muzan came after everyone not just the Hashira. Despite his rough and harsh exterior, Sanemi actually cares about his colleagues and his subordinates and he doesn't want them to die needlessly. If that means he has to be the 'bad' Hashira, then that's fine with him.

Genya

There's no justification for the shit he pulled trying to poke Genya's eyes out. I've made like two posts regarding this before about how his actions were not only stupid but will ultimately be pointless because Genya is amazing!

Aside from wanting to keep Genya safe (whatever that means), I think one of the reasons Sanemi doesn't want to come in contact with Genya is because when he's around Genya he's reminded of the past and trauma that he's trying to repress. I don't think it was a random choice that older Genya is dressed in a way almost similar to baby Genya. So everytime Sanemi sees him, despite Genya's size and the awesome things he's done, all he can see is that little boy that he almost failed to protect, that called him a monster, that rejected him and seeing that reopens that old core wound. That he's a monster.

Sanemi isn't ready to face all that, so with the little understanding of his own emotions and the trappings of toxic masculinity, he pushes Genya away becuase doing so is way, way, way easier than talking to his brother. It's easier than revealing to Genya that Genya's words did hurt him, that he failed to protect their mom and siblings and that maybe Genya is right, he is a monster, that even though he saved Genya it doesn't change the fact that he used his very hands to kill the only person that loved and protected them in this world.

I think a lot of people really underestimate the gravity of what baby Sanemi did. Tanjiro couldn't kill Nezuko and I'm sure he himself would've rather died than raise a hand to his loved ones but Tanjiro was lucky in a sick way because Nezuko was not only the only survivor but encountered Giyuu who who gave him the opportunity to save Nezuko, essentially giving her a second life. Sanemi never had that chance. In order to protect his brother, he had to kill his beloved mother, and you can just imagine the amount of damage that can do to a child's psyche.

I read a comment on Youtube that said this was probably the reason why Sanemi was so feverently against the Master's defence of Nezuko and that when Nezuko rejected his blood, his whole worldview must have shattered because if Nezuko was able to overcome her demonic urges and still maintain her sanity, why couldn't his beloved mother?

But you might ask, how come Genya seems fine? Well, he wasn't at first, he was basically Sanemi 2.0 but he was able to make peace with himself, escape the trappings of toxic masculinity and the violence that they were raised in. Instead of bottling up his emotions, he wants to reach out, to apologize for his behavior, to mend their brotherhood because no matter how Sanemi is now, no matter how many times he tells him to get lost, no matter the harsh words he throws at him, to Genya he'll always be his Aniki.

The same Aniki who's been looking out for him, the same Aniki that sought him out and comforted him after he punched the landlord's shitty son, the same Aniki who gave him a piggyback ride despite them practically being the same height just to make Genya feel happy and loved, the same Aniki who let out that brilliant laugh after they made the promise to protect their family as he pulled the Rickshaw to make some money for the family, the same Aniki who is the sweetest, kindest person in the whole world.

While we see the rough, scarred, aggressive and scary Sanemi, Genya only sees this:

I'm sure a lot of us know what it's like to be angry, to lash out, to push people away and how difficult it is go through life in a world that doesn't care about you or your trauma. We know what it's like to be left behind and forgotten. We wander aimlessly through life hurting with a feeling of emptiness and we don't even know why. Some of us overcome, some of us don't. We just make do with the tools and little resources we have and Sanemi is a painful reminder of that.

In Conclusion, Sanemi is a complex character. He's not all star good, he's a dick, some of his actions are straightup unhinged, but that's what makes him human. He's not perfect, and for us to appreciate this character we have to accept him in all his wild, raging, scarred, petty-ass, little-brother-eye-poking, women's-size-7-feet-having, ohagi-loving glory.

i think sanemi uses pet names a lot, unconsciously, and giyuu notices this and wants to reciprocate them so, like, he manages to squeeze on in and, like—

"giyuu?"

"yeah, babe??" (giyuu wonders if it's overkill)

sanemi freezes, turning to giyuu with comically slow movements. "huh?"

giyuu looks up, genuinely wondering what's wrong. "hm?"

"did you just-" sanemi stammers, his cheeks pink. "say that again."

"say what?"

"the. the word. you know."

"oh! babe?"

sanemi turns away and promptly knocks his head against the wall, making giyuu scurry over.

"what happened?? should i not?-"

"god, fuck, i love you," sanemi growls. he turns and suffocates giyuu with a hug, apparently too busy reveling in the term to care about either of their health.

"uhm, sanemi, i can't breathe."

"sorry." he releases him. goes back to hitting the wall with his head—or using the wall to hit his head. it's hard to tell what is being abused. (he is definitely going to do anything to make giyuu call him that again.)

// also giyuu, the dense bastard, only figures it out later that night. and then proceeds to take any chance to tease sanemi with the nicknames.

"love, can you get me that?"

"i'm sorry, darling."

"baby, im sick :(("

"honey? wanna go out tonight?"

Peter's spider abilities hdc

hi gguys! I've realized that I've got very concrete spider characteristics that I think Pete would get (just bcs I like them) and I realized that maybe they'll need TE or others yk? Well I also love them a lot, so if it wins I'll write all of them! but there may be some spoilers of the fic Σ(ﾟДﾟ；) so idk... That would mean that for it to be spoiler free I would have to omit some (if not most of them)

Surprise! It's some Spideytorch sketches! ♡

My Instagram

Keen observation: Giyū is a hypocrite:

Let me explain:

Alright, to prove this point I am going to focus on two specific points (With Anime episodes and Manga chapters listed)

Okay: the first point to be made is with when Tanjiro is trying to convince Giyú to come and train the other demon slayers, and Giyú is doing all he can to avoid and // or ignore poor sweet Tanjiro.

Exhibits A // B // C:

"Giyú sannnnn!!" // "Mr. Giyuuu!!"

Throughout Season five, Episode two "Water Hashira Giyú Tomioka's Pain" (Covering from chapter 130 of the Manga), we get to see Tanjiro's sheer determination to convince the stoic hashira to join in training the younger // lower ranking corps members - to which Giyú consistently either flat out refuses him, or ignores him - leading to a rather hilarious sequence of events that last over a few days.

And at one point we get to see things from Giyú's perspective - and what he says made me get thinking: HMM THIS SEEMS AWFULLY FAMILIAR - OH YEAH THAT'S BECUASE IT IS.

(Thoughts) Is he going to… keep this up for the rest of my life?

(Thoughts) If I talk to him, will he stop stalking me?

AND THAT LEADS ME INTO POINT B. Throughout Season five  Episode 7, "Stone Hashira Gyomei Himejima" - We find Giyú and Sanemi in the midst of a heated spar - only for Tanjiro to intervene because he thinks that they are actually fighting each other.

He then proceeds to talk about Sanemi's enjoyment of Ohagi (For reference Ohagi is a Japanese sweet that is made of glutenous rice flour and red bean paste // it is also sometimes called red bean mochi and is like an inside out Daifuku) - And Giyú displays interest in this, notable by the remark he passes to the other Hashira

"You like Ohagi?"

(Also how refreshing was it to see Giyú actually trying to make friends?? Like AHHHH he's trying so hard and WHO DOES THAT SOUND LIKE?? - TANJIRO.)

Giyú then goes on to tell Tanjiro his silly little plan; the next time he sees Sanemi - he's going to hide some Ohagi up his sleeve to give to him. Now see, that sounds really cute and all, but imagine this from Sanemi's perspective.

He's clearly embarrassed by Tanjiro talking about his liking of Ohagi - based off his reaction to Tanjiro bringing it up. He shouted, and then stormed off.

Now picture the person who he hates on a level nearly par with demons (Someone who is always painfully quiet and uninterested in him) suddenly acting all smiley and enthusiastic, brandishing Ohagi from... up his sleeve? I don't know about you, but that would seem quite odd to me, condescending even.

Personally, I headcannon that Giyú went full Tanjiro in his pursuit to give Sanemi some Ohagi and become friends with him, but a more so silent approach. Like he'd still be overbearing, but with that little smile of his accompanied by an empty stare and total silence.

MIt'd creep the hell out of Sanemi and probably make him feel a little insecure, almost embarrassed of himself if Giyuu was going to this length in (what he thinks is) teasing him.

Another instance of miscommunication for them. Sanemi would probably start thinking like Giyú had-

"Is he going to keep this up forever!?"

"Goddammit, if I entertain this will he leave me alone?!"

(Just look at his silly face // he is both pure of heart and dumb of ass)

but I think Sanemi's face was bound to look less like that ^^^ and more like this: vvv

AND THERE IS MY LITTLE ESSAY ON WHY GIYU IS A HYPOCRITE - WHETHER HE KNOWS IT OR NOT.

I have a headcannon // Oneshot for this that I will link HERE when it is finished x.

And an abridged one below:

( I think he would have eventually taken a piece of Ohagi from him, and that it would have made Giyú insanely happy - but Sanemi takes that as him being sarcastic - causing more friction on his side, whereas Giyú thinks they are making progress, making him do it again.

I think this kerfuffle would have only been cleared up after the final battle, to which Sanemi feels a little worse for being so cold to Giyú - but is immediately forgiven and gifted with a bunch of Ohagi, as Giyú grew quite skilled at making it after so many practice runs. )

THEY'RE SO SILLY I LOVE THEM

Kiss kiss redraw

Old version + base colors

Update (9/13/22)

I wanted to link the old post here as well for anyone to see

More Kissing

Commissions open

So, I’ve been thinking a lot about spideytorch lately (as I am one to do) and a question popped into my head:

What is the most important spideytorch comic panel?

There’s a ton of great options in my opinion, but I think there also is an answer (at least for me) so now I am going to subject all of you to my thought process. Get ready for a way to long post breaking this down.

The most obvious starting point has to be this classic

Johnny Storm is going full house husband for Peter Parker, I mean c’mon! add in the fact that he’s in his undies and the way that he’s leaning over peter… yeah this is a classic. This might be the most famous spideytorch panel out there, but I don’t think it’s the most important one.

Another classic (but more antagonistic?) one takes place, of course, at the usual place.

To me this is peak identity shenanigans and the stuff that fanfics are made of. The betrayal, the heartbreak, the complications that go into the conflicting way these two view identity, oh boy I could talk about that shit for hours, but as an individual moment, it doesn’t really crack most important for me, it needs a bit more affection (they’re very bad at affection sometimes).

Another panel that came to mind very quickly for me is this set.

Johnny literally only had to say his name and Peter knew exactly what he meant and what he needed. This is top tier levels of communication, both between them and from the creators to us. I think this is another one that I could talk about for hours. That being said, it doesn’t feel important enough to me.

A friend in the spideytorch discord server posed this panel as the most important spideytorch moment in the comics.

I’m just gonna put their quote in cause it’s great. “I think this is one of my favorite panels cause Johnny was just speaking generally and Peter was like ‘oh my god! Actual wise words form johnny’ but also, I love that this was a more important moment for Peter than Johnny.” I must say, this entry is extremely important to spideytorch and gave my choice a run for its money. I don’t have a huge reason for not making this one the most important, other than personal taste. For their relationship, this is a key moment and sets them on the path to actually being friends (at least on Peter’s end), but idk it just wasn’t doing it for me.

Another panel I was reminded of thanks to this submission was this moment.

It’s not quite as impactful as the past one by a long shot but I do think it’s important. After being rivals for so long, to see Johnny give a genuine heartfelt compliment to Peter is fantastic (haha). This feels like the other half of the previous set of panels. There we had Johnny encouraging a stranger and here he’s encouraging his friend.

Some other friends in the discord server suggested the moment that Johnny invites Peter over to watch his sex tape (yes this is canon).

(Not pictured, Peter swinging away and saying he needs to take a cold shower). Now I’m not saying that the most important spideytorch moment needs to be serious, but I think this moment might be too unserious to claim that title. This moment was huge for the fanbase because holy shit did, he actually say that, but for their relationship, I just don’t think it was as important as it was to us.

Now I do want to knock out a few honorable mentions that I would hate to miss.

First, this look given to Spidey by Johnny, I mean yeah, he’s in love.

And to balance the lovesick flirty scales I must expose Peter as well.

Next, this heartbreaking moment that basically admits to the audience that Peter’s world becomes chaos when he loses Johnny. That shit hits.

Of course, the moment that gave us the ship name.

A panel that lives in my head rent-free because honestly marvel what were you attempting to convey here other than the fact that Peter really wants to have hate sex with Johnny Storm?

To take us outside of our duo, this quote from Ben Grimm (EDIT: it’s was Peter’s clone Ben Reilly, which honestly only adds more drama), because honestly same.

And of course, I have to include the panel which showed us the first time (on page) that Peter told Johnny he loved him AND gave us canon proof that these two have “date night,” many a fic writer was fed well.

And how could we forget! THE USUAL PLACE! Literally any panel mentioning this is top tier because its so good, like the core of the fandom honestly.

Lastly, before moving on to my own more serious contenders I have to share this parallel that @sciderman shared because I love it.

Now to my serious contenders for the title of most important spideytorch panel (please remember this is all my opinion and I mean no shade). This will be a top 5, but just know some of these rankings are pretty flexible (even flexible with some panels from the beginning), and this question should not be taken as seriously as I am taking it, I am fully aware of that.

Number 5!

So, I know that I discounted the sex tape scene earlier because I didn’t think it was serious enough and it didn’t do enough for their actual relationship, but I had to include this one I’m sorry. A lot of this is personal taste but the implications here are *chefs kiss* The first time I saw this panel was actually on Pinterest with the caption “wait a second, did spider-man and the human torch have sex?” which says it all for me.

Beyond that, this moment also shows how they reach out to each other when they have problems. Strange children show up in Peter’s life and the first person he calls about it is Johnny. Again, this is not the most serious, but I love it. This moment shows the banter of their relationship, how they care about and rely on each other, and also potentially reveals that they’ve had sex. There’s a lot to take in.

Number 4!

I will be honest with you all, this moment is here almost entirely because Ben’s quote lives in my head rent-free. Everyone around them sees how they feel about each other besides them. When they were rivals others could tell they actually liked each other and when they became friends others could tell that it was deeper than that. I think I especially love this panel because it conforms that we’re not crazy for thinking there’s something there but also because Ben specifically cites the way Johnny looks at peter. That is very specific and says a lot. I can’t imagine Ben would say this if the looks Johnny gave Peter were purely platonic, and just ahhhh, there’s so much said here just in one line from Ben. There was of course the Ben moment earlier, which I also love, but something about this one, the more specific phrasing of it I think just shoots it up my rankings a lot.

Number 3!

If you’ve been following me for a while I don’t think this is a surprise at all, I have already done a very in depth post about this panel so I’ll keep my thoughts brief. Red Skull knows that hurting Johnny will hurt Peter, Peter’s Spidey senses go off FOR JOHNNY, and we are given so much angst potential, I love it.

Number 2!

This one is probably a more popular choice than my number one, and I totally get it. The excitement and joy bursting out of Peter when he finally realizes that Johnny is here, he’s real, and he’s alive really gets me. Plus, the added context to the uniform comment being that Johnny literally left Peter his family and his spot on the team in his will. The amount of pure love in this moment and its larger context is abundant, platonic or romantic, it’s there. I feel like everything I could say about this panel has probably been said before, but it is definitely worthy of being the most important spideytorch moment, even if I have one that beats it for me.

Number 1!

For those of you who don’t know, this panel comes from Peter visiting Gwen’s grave and talking to her. That fact alone breaks me in half but then the things he says to her shatter me. Every spider-man fan knows how much Gwen’s death broke Peter, it destroyed him to lose her. Just the fact that Peter admits Johnny brings part of him back is amazing (haha) because that is a hug feat. But then he shatters me even more with his final sentences. After Gwen’s death, we often get a peter who spends too much time as Spidey in order to avoid having to cope with Gwen’s death as Peter, but also as a way to cope with the loss (he’s a complicate man). Spideypool also gets a lot from that arc because of Wade’s reaction to Spider-Man not holding back as much and becoming less of a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, and that’s true. The fact that Peter feels like he’s becoming who Spidey is supposed to be again when he’s around johnny is huge! But then! He corrects himself. He’s not Spidey again, he’s Peter. The real person, the man behind the mask, comes back. And then you get the final correction. He’s not just peter again, he’s *Gwen’s* peter again. He is the him that existed with Gwen when he’s with Johnny. That speaks volumes and breaks whatever parts of me are left. How am I expected to read this and not think that Johnny and Peter are soulmates?

Now, I will acknowledge that this is much more of a peter moment than a joint spideytorch moment, much like the moment suggested by discord friend earlier. If that disqualifies it for you as the most important spideytorch panel, I get it. However, for me that doesn’t matter mainly for one key reason. So many classic spideytorch moments show a lot of Johnny having feelings for Peter or making a move on Peter. There have been a lot of times when I’m trying to get a friend into spideytorch, and I feel like I have to clarify that its not as one sided as it seems. Johnny is much more out there with who he is and doesn’t hide his feelings very well (except maybe from himself). So, when we get any spideytorch moment that hones in on peter’s feelings and love for Johnny, that feels so huge to me. This moment alone proves that it isn’t one sided, Peter has deep feelings for Johnny, even if he’s not sure what they are yet, he knows that what they have is special, he wouldn’t be telling Gwen about it otherwise. While it may not be as famous of a spideytorch moment, its an important one, and for me it’s probably the most important one.

Anyway, this has been a way too long post about this topic but if you made it to the end thank you so much! I would love to hear other people’s thoughts on this topic so feel free to share those. Also, just a reminder that these are my opinions, and I am not in charge at all so don’t take it too seriously (unless you want to).

If you’re interested in hearing me, go more in depth on any of these panels (or any other spideytorch panels) shoot me an ask because I could honestly talk in depth for a while about most of these panels and I would love to do so. Thank you again for reading this way to long post and good night spideytorch nation.

If Giyuu and Sanemi actually got together, who do you think falls first? Who confesses first? Do they keep it a secret or are they proud? We all know Sanemi is loud about his dislike of Giyuu. I personally think he probably deals with his crush by lashing out (I think I sent an ask about this once before.) I guarantee he has internalized homophobia. I just want to know your thoughts and what you think would happen because your unhinged posts seriously make my day.

Oh @psyencefaction

Sorry for the long wait!

I feel like Giyuu would be the first one to fall and this is because he's more in touch with his feelings than Sanemi. His fascination with Sanemi started after Sanemi's first Hashira meeting after he lashed out at Kagaya, the unrestrained display of emotions and his ability to express what he felt so clearly reminded him of Sabito, his first love. Then when he discovered that the source of Sanemi's anger was the death of his best friend/aniki Masachika, Giyuu felt a sense of solidarity. Sanemi on the other hand might be a bit weirded out by Giyuu because of his quiet nature and social awkwardness but after a few missions together he would begin to appreciate his strength of character, his skill, and straightforwardness, it also helps that Giyuu is pretty.

I fuck with Sanemi having internalized homophobia especially with his background growing up in the slums of the city where Westernization and Western values had already taken hold of the population and I'm sure he would have gotten flak for his feminine-looking face and his role as the second mom of the family, especially from Kyogo.

Speaking of, Kyogo would also be another reason Sanemi wouldn't want to act on his feelings because growing up as a gayby under the thumb of an abusive father (the first man in his life) would damage his future relationships with men. It could even be the reason Sanemi is so anti-authority and why he projects this aggressive, hypermasculine image which coupled with his size serves not only as a means of protecting himself from getting hurt but also a means to drive people, especially men, away and Giyuu is no exception. This could also be the reason why his friendship with Obanai works so well because Obanai is not threatening physically, and he has a subdued personality compared to the one of someone like say Uzui.

Sanemi would develop a sort of fascination with Giyuu because of his unusually chill and quiet nature, which would develop into full-blown feelings that would creep up on him. Along with Giyuu's positive qualities and his quiet, chill nature, he's also non-threatening; he's not loud, violent, or portrays any other 'toxic' masculine traits that would trigger Sanemi's fight-or-fight response or remind him of his dad. So to curb this growing desire, he lashes out as Giyuu which serves not just as a way to drive the other man away but also as a way to satisfy his confirmation bias that Giyuu is just as toxic as all the other men he's known in his life when Giyuu eventually lashes out.

But my man Giyuu ain't like that. He's level-headed, steadfast, calm, sweet, and unbelievably kind if not a little bit dense. After he learns of Sanemi's love for ohagi to Sanemi's embarrassment, I bet he'd be at Sanemi's estate gate every morning with a package of ohagi, like Tanjiro(bestest boy ❤) did for him, but he doesn't realize its significance and what it means to Sanemi. Ohagi means love, comfort, care, and safety, and Sanemi's regular consumption symbolizes his inner desire to be taken care of.

At first, Sanemi ignores Giyuu's attempts but Giyuu with Tanjiro's encouragement wound persists. Imagine him following Sanemi around with the ohagi gift until Sanemi finally snaps and confronts Giyuu, ready to square up for making fun of him.

Giyuu in an amazing stroke of wisdom would explain to Sanemi that he wasn't and would never make fun of him which would lead to the big confession telling him that he wants to make ohagi for Sanemi forever and stuff. Sanemi would be stunned into silence as his emotional walls begin crumbling down because Giyuu is essentially communicating his desire to take care of Sanemi along with the promise that he would never hurt him and that he would always be safe. Giyuu would tentatively move closer and closer until he was so close that their noses were practically touching, he'll look into Sanemi's eyes asking for permission, and after a small nod from the other man would press his lips against Sanemi's in a passionate kiss.

Their relationship would be gradual because of their demon-slaying duties with only a few secret makeout sessions here and there. The first time they have sex would be a big deal for Sanemi not just because it puts him in a vulnerable position but because he's surprised at how soft Giyuu is with him. Sanemi is used to being treated roughly, by others and especially by himself but never has he been treated with such...care. Not by anyone, not even his mom, and here's Giyuu treating him like he was made of glass. Even though he was physically bigger than Giyuu at that moment he felt small but in a good way and most of all, he felt safe. The overwhelming emotions will make him shed tears that'd make Giyuu worried at first but touched after reassurance from Sanemi. Their lovemaking would be sweet and passionate as they explore each other's bodies.

I love to focus on Sanemi's POV not just because I'm a Nemi-hoe but also because I'm not worried about Giyuu being taken care of. Sanemi is a caretaker by nature so him doting on Giyuu is an undisputed given, the main work is him letting others take care of him. I'd like to think of Sanemi making Giyuu meals, always asking if he's eaten and inviting him to his house for meals. Their relationship would be healing for both of them as Giyuu gets to be a protector of sorts and Sanemi gets to be the protected...of sorts.

Anyway, I think their relationship would be an open secret because let's be real people especially the other Hashira would notice that their arguments have reduced and Obanai has even seen Sanemi smile at Giyuu much to his confusion. The main tea would be spilled by the Kakushi who would see Giyuu leave Sanemi's residence in the early hours of the morning, the both of them eating together with Sanemi lovingly wiping crumbs from Giyuu's face with a shockingly soft expression on his face and on one occasion accidentally heard moans coming from Giyuu's bedroom window when they came to deliver dinner.

Maybe Genya would come over to Sanemi's residence for the usual notice-me-aniki visit and stumble upon Sanemi sleeping with his head in Giyuu's lap. Giyuu would notice him, put a finger to his lips, and smile softly at Genya's shocked expression. He would back out of the house slowly so as not to wake Sanemi 50-parts shocked but 50 parts touched that his Aniki had someone and Sanemi looked so...peaceful. He can come to beg for Aniki crumbs another time.

I made extra content using the Gakuen! Here they slept together after a night patrolling the school, their relationship was found out the next morning while the teachers were cleaning the staff room.

sorry it took so long, I hope you like it! 😖