Lost In Translation Of Word Of Honor: Southern Barbarians and Their Association With Poison

Still one of my favorite instrumental songs.

Our Shining Days - Review

This review is for the movie from 2017, not the TV series from 2019. I really enjoyed this. It’s silly (very silly), but it’s fun. If you’re a trained musician maybe close your eyes during those parts but I assume you do that anyway (other than for the guzheng player anyway, since the word is she can actually play). Pros:

Funny! It was properly funny for me

Largely focused on the musical angst rather than romantic angst

GREAT music

Generally enjoyable leads

Cons:

I mean, it is silly, so if you don’t like silly then that’s a con for you

Bad miming of the western classical music esp, if that bothers you (I tend to space out and just listen)

Female lead’s hair slightly bothered me most of the movie (but they didn’t give her a makeover, which I appreciate)

A little over the top in the school western vs Chinese instrument hierarchy, but that IS the point of the movie (the folk music department is literally behind a gate, which I found hilarious).

This was mainly on my watch list, because I figured the music would be good (I love a traditional instrument), and it turned out to be really enjoyable over all. Just a quick, fun watch. Most of the cons aren’t things that bothered me much, but I try to think about what might bother other people.

I just noticed there’s a flute/recorder part in that video and none of them play that… Luckily that stuff doesn’t really bother me if I’m enjoying the media.

Stars of Chaos 杀破狼

Volume 3, Notes 2/5, Pages 97 - 151

This was actually a really easy read, maybe because it's been almost a year since I last read this in Chinese and so I am not remembering awesome idioms every page; but, anyway! Here we continue <3

In case you don't already know， a huli jing 狐狸精 is a fox spirit. Famous for being super sexy.

In the online Chinese version I read, there was no actual mention of Gu Yun's movements, but more his mindset: 失魂落魄地走了 = "walked off in a daze". Because of the steel plates and all his injuries, I guess it was not a smooth "walking off" so much as a forlorn stumbling, but I don't like the word "hobbled" used on Gu Yun.

Chinese: "整日里便是在我耳边嘀咕." The meaning is the same as "yakking my year off," but it sounds much more elegant in Chinese, of course: "All day, is at the side of my ear, muttering / whispering / chatting quietly...”

Top: again, it just sounds better in Chinese. English is "like a house on fire," Chinese is "投缘" = "kindred spirits" or, broken apart, "thrown, fate."

Bottom: many official ceremonies are carried out with official, kneeling, head-to-floor bows. In this case, it will be an official ceremony to celebrate Ge Chen becoming Zhang Fenghan's adopted son.

(I love how Chang Geng never actually says "So! Ge Chen wants you to adopt him," but instead says a bunch of nice things to Master Fenghan, and Master Fenghan says some nice things back, and then Chang Geng concludes with "We'll call you with the date of the Adoption Ceremony. Bye!")

I love names in Chinese!

So, Du Wanquan is 杜万全， where

Wan 万 = 10,000 ("a very large number") and

Quan 全 = "complete, all", and

the two words together 万全 = absolutely safe / surefire / thorough （mdbg.net).

Good name for the God of Wealth, yah?

In case you don't remember, Zhong-lao is Old Master Zhong / General Zhong, who came out of retirement to help lead the forces in the South. He trained up both Gu Yun and, much later, Chang Geng.

"Speak of the Devil" in Chinese is "说曹操曹操就到."

曹操 Cao Cao was the king of Wei during the 3 Kingdoms Period (the very very beginnings of the 3 Kingdoms period).

Though I think in the actual story, Cao Cao actually saved a fellow ruler who had been thinking of asking him for help against an attack; but before the fellow could send out his messenger with the request, Cao Cao and his army suddenly appeared and crushed the attackers.

The translation is fine. I just feel like in the phrase 朝廷挤出点口粮实在不容易, using "must have" for the English just feels better.

"When a person hid their wounds WITH THEIR TWO HANDS so that none could see, no one had the right to pry AWAY their hands."

It all makes sense once you realize that the verb used here is 捂 wǔ = "to enclose / to cover with the hand (mdbg.net)."

脏癖 dirty habits/inclinations (because Liao Ran didn't like bathing）

My DanMei Literary Adventure Masterpost

Stars of Chaos - All Notes Links

More Evidence for How My Favorites are Evil (Geniuses)(but not really evil)

from 杀破狼 Stars of Chaos, Ch 57:

Gu Yun laments not being more decisive about obliterating (murdering) all the evidence that he had previously mostly obliterated; or he should have just collected the evidence and used it to stage a hostile takeover. Sigh. Oh well.

Chang Geng reassures LiaoRan that he won’t attack the emperor (not because being nice is the right thing to do, but) because it’s not the right time.

I’m sure there are plenty of other modern western stories where the main characters are grey, but I just can’t think of any other story where the non-villain-coded main characters are all “darn, I should have murdered that other person” and “don’t worry — I won’t murder until the time is right.”

if only priest wrote fanfic, i would totally eat it up 🥹

the 7s translators for spl and guardian have mentioned pipi editing the manuscript for physical eng publication before tho! this would explain why there's so much discrepancy between the online pirated version you're reading and the official eng print

https://x[.]com/lily_ocho/status/1560892610570379270

https://x[.]com/yuka_cchii/status/1696468355836764257

AH! Thank you!! That makes sense.

I rather prefer the online pirated version, probably since I lived in that book for, like, ❤️a year❤️, but I guess that makes sense.

I'll slow the complaining in my annotations, I guess. Sigh. Priest, this is all your fault. 🥰

(Is "pipi" = Priest?)

Nothing to add. Perfectly put. ♥️ Our poor murder twinks ♥️

Common misconception, but the murder twink obsessed with revenge is actually Nie Huaisang. Jin Guangyao is a murder twink obsessed with self preservation first, Lan Xichen second, and the betterment of society through public works of infrastructure third.

I also just read Sha Po Lang! Those weapons and flying ships and wings have been in my head for months now - it’s lovely to see what they look like (according to idledee, which is gospel enough for me).

ive been reading sha po lang!

MDZS Volume 4 Annotations

Part 6, pages 210 - 234

More anti-slang, and a couple more clarifications.

More under the cut

Ok, so. This is weird, not because it’s incorrect, but because it is correct (but I don’t like using the word “strumpet” here).

The direct translation of “满身风尘” is “whole body wind dust,” implying that you’ve been outside for quite some time and are probably tired and dirty, most probably because of travel -- travel fatigue. Makes sense.

But 风尘 also refers to when women are driven to prostitution, likely because society is unstable or dangerous (like in times of war)(or just when times are hard). 风尘女 is another way to say “prostitute.”

So now I’m not sure whether MXTX was trying to say “besides the fact that the woman looked travel-worn,…”; or if she was saying “besides the fact that the woman looked like a prostitute (who hadn’t worked in 11 years?)(and is in normal clothes?)(and isn’t trying to beguile any new customers, either?),…”; or if she’s just conveniently using a word/phrase that means both at the same time in Chinese.

I don’t know why the translators chose “boy.” The Chinese is 少年, which is pretty obviously “youth” or “young person” or even “teenager,” but is definitely not a child.

Still trying to figure out why I like this look so much…

Would you be willing to talk about how standards of masculinity and femininity in Asia differ from those in Europe/North America? I know, it's a ridiculously broad question but I think you mentioned it in passing previously and I would be really interested in your answer especially in the context of the music industry and idols. I (European) sometimes see male Asian idols as quite feminine (in appearance, maybe?) even if they publicly talk about typically masculine hobbies of theirs.

Hi Anon,

Sorry that it took me over a month to get to this question, but the sheer volume of research that is necessary to actually answer this is significant, as there is an enormous body of work in gender studies. There are academics who have staked their entire careers in this field of research, much of which isn’t actually transnational, being that regional gender studies alone is already an incredibly enormous field.

As such, in no way can I say that I’ve been able to delve into even 1% of all the research that is out there to properly address this question. While I can talk about gender issues in the United States, and gender issues that deal with Asian American identity, I am not an expert in transnational gender studies between Asia and Europe. That being said, I’ll do my best to answer what I can. 

When we consider the concept of “masculinity” and “femininity,” we must first begin with the fundamental understanding that gender is both a construct and a performance. The myth of gender essentialism and of gender as a binary is a product of patriarchy and compulsory heterosexuality in each culture where it emerges.

What you must remember when you talk about gendered concepts such as “masculinity” and “femininity” is that there is no universal idea of “masculinity” or “femininity” that speaks across time and nation and culture. Even within specific regions, such as Asia, not only does each country have its own understanding of gender and national signifiers and norms that defines “femininity” or “masculinity,” but even within the borders of the nation-state itself, we can find significantly different discourses on femininity and masculinity that sometimes are in direct opposition with one another. 

If we talk about the United States, for example, can we really say that there is a universal American idea of “masculinity” or “femininity”? How do we define a man, if what we understand to be a man is just a body that performs gender? What kind of signifiers are needed for such a performance? Is it Chris Evan’s Captain America? Or is it Chris Hemsworth’s Thor? What about Robert Downey Jr.’s Tony Stark? Do these characters form a single, cohesive idea of masculinity? 

What about Ezra Miller’s Barry Allen? Miller is nonbinary - does their superhero status make them more masculine? Or are they less “masculine” because they are nonbinary? 

Judith Butler tells us in Gender Trouble (1990) and Bodies That Matter: On the Discursive Limits of “Sex” (1993) that what we call gender is inherently a discursive performance of specific signifiers and behaviors that were assigned to the gender binary and enforced by compulsory heterosexuality. She writes:

Insofar as heterosexual gender norms produce inapproximate ideals, heterosexuality can be said to operate through the regulated production of hyperbolic versions of “man” and “woman.” These are for the most part compulsory performances, ones which none of us choose, but which each of us is forced to negotiate. (1993: 237)

Because gender norms vary regionally, there are no stable norms that coalesce into the idea of a single, universal American “masculinity.” What I mean by this is that your idea of what reads as “masculine” might not be what I personally consider to be “masculine,” as someone who grew up in a very left-leaning liberal cosmopolitan area of the United States. 

What I am saying is this: Anon, I think you should consider challenging your idea of gender, because it sounds to me like you have a very regionally locked conception of the gender binary that informs your understanding of “masculinity” and femininity” - an understanding that simply does not exist in Asia, where there is not one,  but many different forms of masculinity. 

China, Japan, and South Korea all have significant cultural differences and understandings of gender, which has a direct relationship with one’s national and cultural identity. 

Japan, for example, might consider an idol who has long, layered hair and a thin body to be the ideal for idol masculinity, but would not consider an idol to be representative of “real” Japanese masculinity, which is epitomized by the Japanese salaryman. 

South Korea, however, has a very specific idea of what idol masculinity must look like -  simultaneously hypermasculine (i.e. extremely muscular, chiseled body) and “feminine” (i.e. makeup and dyed hair, extravagant clothing with a soft, beautiful face.) But South Korea also presents us with a more “standardized” idea of masculinity that offers an alternative to the “flowerboy” masculinity performed by idols, when we consider actors such as Hyun Bin and Lee Min-ho. 

China is a little more complex. In order to understand Chinese masculinity, we must first understand that prior to the Hallyu wave, the idea of the perfect Chinese man was defined by three qualities: 高富帅 (gaofushuai) tall, moneyed, and handsome - largely due to the emergence of the Chinese metrosexual. 

According to Kam Louie:

[The] Chinese metrosexual, though urbanized, is quite different from his Western counterpart. There are several translations of the term in Chinese, two of the most common and standard being “bailing li'nan” 白领丽男 and “dushili'nan” 都市丽男，literally “white-collar beautiful man” and “city beautiful man.” The notion of “beautiful man” (li-nan) refers to one who looks after his appearance and has healthy habits and all of the qualities usually attributed to the metrosexual; these are also the attributes of the reconstituted “cool” salaryman in Japan, men who have abandoned the “salaryman warrior” image and imbibed recent transnational corporate ideologies and practices. 

[...]

In fact, the concept of the metrosexual by its very nature defines a masculinity ideal that can only be attained by the moneyed classes. While it can be said to be a “softer” image than the macho male, it nevertheless encompasses a very “hard” and competitive core, one that is more aligned with the traditional “wen” part of the wen-wu dyad that I put forward as a conventional Chinese ideal and the “salaryman warrior” icon in Japan. Unsurprisingly, both metrosexuality and wen-wu masculinity are created and embraced by men who are “winners” in the patriarchal framework. 

The wen-wu 文武 (cultural attainment – martial valor) dyad that Louie refers to is the idea that Chinese masculinity was traditionally shaped by “a dichotomy between cultural and martial accomplishments” and is not only an ideal that has defined Chinese masculinity throughout history, but is also a uniquely Chinese phenomenon.

When the Hallyu wave swept through China, in an effort to capture and maximize success in the Chinese market, South Korean idol companies recruited Chinese idols and mixed them into their groups. Idols such as Kris Wu, Han Geng, Jackson Wang, and Wang Yibo are just a few such idols whose masculinities were redefined by the Kpop idol ideal. 

Once that crossover occurred, China’s idol image shifted towards the example South Korea set, with one caveat: such an example can only exist on stage, in music videos, and other “idol” products. Indeed, if we look at any brand campaigns featuring Wang Yibo, his image is decisively more metrosexual than idol; he is usually shot bare-faced and clean-cut, without the “idol” aesthetics that dominate his identity as Idol Wang Yibo. But, this meterosexual image, despite being the epitome of Chinese idealized masculinity, would still be viewed as more “feminine” when viewed by a North American gaze. (It is important to note that this gaze is uniquely North American, because meterosexual masculinity is actually also a European ideal!)

The North American gaze has been trained to view alternate forms of masculinity as non-masculine. We are inundated by countless images of hypermasculinity and hypersexual femininity in the media, which shapes our cultural consciousness and understanding of gender and sexuality and unattainable ideals. 

It is important to be aware that these ideals are culturally and regionally codified and are not universal. It is also important to challenge these ideals, as you must ask yourself: why is it an ideal? Why must masculinity be defined in such a way in North America? Why does the North American gaze view an Asian male idol and immediately read femininity in his bodily performance? What does that say about your North American cultural consciousness and understanding of gender? 

I encourage you to challenge these ideas, Anon.  

“Always already a cultural sign, the body sets limits to the imaginary meanings that it occasions, but is never free of imaginary construction.” - Judith Butler 

Works Cited

Butler, Judith. Gender Trouble. New York, NY, Routledge, 1990. Butler, Judith. Bodies That Matter: On the Discursive Limits of Sex. New York, NY, Routledge, 1993. Flowerboys and the appeal of 'soft masculinity' in South Korea. BBC, 2018,  Louie, Kam. “Popular Culture and Masculinity Ideals in East Asia, with Special Reference to China.” The Journal of Asian Studies, Volume 71, Issue 4, November 2012 , pp. 929 - 943 Louie, Kam. Chinese, Japanese, and Global Masculine Identities. New York, NY, Routledge, 2003. 

Please can you explain the difference of meaning between hanfu and huafu ? Sorry if you already got the question

Hi, thanks for the question, and sorry for taking ages to reply! (hanfu photo via)

The term “hanfu” (traditional Chinese: 漢服, simplified Chinese: 汉服) literally means “Han clothing”, and refers to the traditional clothing of the Han Chinese people. “Han” (漢/汉) here refers to the Han Chinese ethnic group (not the Han dynasty), and “fu” (服) means “clothing”. As I explained in this post, the modern meaning of “hanfu” is defined by the hanfu revival movement and community. As such, there is a lot of gatekeeping by the community around what is or isn’t hanfu (based on historical circumstances, cultural influences, tailoring & construction, etc). This isn’t a bad thing - in fact, I think gatekeeping to a certain extent is helpful and necessary when it comes to reviving and defining historical/traditional clothing. However, this also led to the need for a similarly short, catchy term that would include all Chinese clothing that didn’t fit the modern definition of hanfu -- enter huafu.

The term “huafu” (traditional Chinese: 華服, simplified Chinese: 华服) as it is used today has a broader definition than hanfu. “Hua” (華/华) refers to the Chinese people (中华民族/zhonghua minzu), and again “fu” (服) means “clothing”. It is an umbrella term for all clothing that is related to Chinese history and/or culture. Thus all hanfu is huafu, but not all huafu is hanfu. Below are examples of Chinese clothing that are generally not considered hanfu by the hanfu community for various reasons, but are considered huafu:

1. Most fashions that originated during the Qing dynasty (1644–1911), especially late Qing, including the Qing aoqun & aoku for women, and the Qing changshan and magua for men. I wrote about whether Qing dynasty clothing can be considered hanfu here. Tangzhuang, which is an updated form of the Qing magua popularized in 2001, can also fit into this category. Below - garments in the style of Han women’s clothing during the Qing dynasty (清汉女装) from 秦綿衣莊 (1, 2).

2. Fashions that originated during the Republican era/minguo (1912-1949), including the minguo aoqun & aoku and qipao/cheongsam for women, and the minguo changshan for men (the male equivalent of the women’s qipao). I wrote about why qipao isn’t considered hanfu here. Below - minguo aoqun (left) & qipao (right) from 嬉姷.

Below - Xiangsheng (crosstalk) performers Zhang Yunlei (left) & Guo Qilin (right) in minguo-style men’s changshan (x). Changshan is also known as changpao and dagua.

3. Qungua/裙褂 and xiuhefu/秀禾服, two types of Chinese wedding garments for brides that are commonly worn today. Qungua originated in the 18th century during the Qing dynasty, and xiuhefu is a modern recreation of Qing wedding dress popularized in 2001 (x). Below - left: qungua (x), right: xiuhefu (x).

4. Modified hanfu (改良汉服/gailiang hanfu) and hanyuansu/汉元素 (hanfu-inspired fashion), which do not fit in the orthodox view of hanfu. Hanfu mixed with sartorial elements of other cultures also fit into this category (e.g. hanfu lolita). From the very start of the hanfu movement, there’s been debate between hanfu “traditionalists” and “reformists”, with most members being somewhere in the middle, and this discussion continues today. Below - hanyuansu outfits from 川黛 (left) and 远山乔 (right).

5. Performance costumes, such as Chinese opera costumes (戏服/xifu) and Chinese dance costumes. These costumes may or may not be considered hanfu depending on the specific style. Dance costumes, in particular, may have non-traditional alterations to make the garment easier to dance in. Dunhuang-style feitian (apsara) costumes, which I wrote about here, can also fit into this category. Below - left: Chinese opera costume (x), right: Chinese dance costume (x).

6. Period drama costumes and fantasy costumes in popular media (live-action & animation, games, etc.), commonly referred to as guzhuang/古装 (lit. “ancient costumes”). Chinese period drama costumes are of course based on hanfu, and may be considered hanfu if they are historically accurate enough. However, as I wrote about here, a lot of the time there are stylistic inaccuracies (some accidental, some intentional) that have become popularized and standardized over time (though this does seem to be improving in recent years). This is especially prevalent in the wuxia and xianxia genres. Similarly, animated shows & games often have characters dressed in “fantasy hanfu” that are essentially hanfu with stylistic modifications. Below - left: Princess Taiping in historical cdrama 大明宫词/Palace of Desire (x), right: Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji in wuxia/xianxia cdrama 陈情令/The Untamed (x). 

7. Any clothing in general that purposefully utilizes Chinese style elements (embroidery, fabrics, patterns, motifs, etc). Chinese fashion brand Heaven Gaia is a well-known example of this. Below - Chinese-inspired designs by Heaven Gaia (x).

8. Technically, the clothing of China’s ethnic minorities also fit under the broad definition of huafu, but it’s rarely ever used in this way.

From personal observation, the term “huafu” is mainly used in the following situations:

1. Some large-scale events to promote Chinese clothing, such as the annual “华服日/Huafu Day”, will use “huafu” in their name for inclusivity.

2. For the same reason as above, Chinese clothing including hanfu will often be referred to as “huafu” on network television programs (ex: variety shows).

3. A few Chinese clothing shops on Taobao use “huafu” in their shop name. Two examples:

明镜华服/Mingjing Huafu - sells hanfu & hanyuansu. 

花神妙华服/Huashenmiao Huafu - sells Qing dynasty-style clothing.

With the exception of the above, “huafu” is still very rarely used, especially compared to “hanfu”. It has such a broad definition that it’s just not needed in situations for which a more precise term already exists. However, I do think it’s useful as a short catch-all term for Chinese clothing that isn’t limited to the currently accepted definition of hanfu.

If anyone wants to add on or correct something, please feel free to do so! ^^ 

Hope this helps!