Concerning Alicent's Reaction To Rhaenyra's Idea To Marry Haelena To Jace, Canon Shows That Ned Stark

Concerning Alicent's reaction to Rhaenyra's idea to marry Haelena to Jace, canon shows that Ned Stark and Stannis Baratheon (both male faves) would react no differently if someone suggested betrothing one of their kids to someone they know/believe is a bastard

It's why even if Joff was decent Ned rejected Littlefingers advice to keep the betrothal and to also betroth Arya to Tommen. It's why Stannis freaked out when whatshisname suggested marrying Tommen to Shireen. Because fair or not Westeros has certain views on inheritance.

Alicents reaction is very natural given their society

The double standards are something else

The issue of bastards is extremely hard to make modern audiences understand because most cultures, at least in the west, no longer have this stigma against them. (Although they suddenly don't have a problem with outdated historical values when it comes to excusing child brides or sexism hahahaha !)

Nyra may have actually had some good intentions there but it was still a slap in her face and she had to have known that to some degree. And Alicent was pretty chill about it next to the reactions of Stannis and Sybelle Spicer and the rest when offered a marriage alliance with a baseborn kid.

But even had she readily accepted, you know they would have found some way to spin it so she's a villain 🤦‍♀️"zomg look at Alicent trying to steal the throne by selling her OWN CHILDREN through marriage!!!1!1!?1"

More Posts from Sielutonlampikana and Others

2 years ago

hottest scene in the batman (2022) is when they were like "we got you down for assaulting a cop now" and batman said "i assaulted three"

2 years ago

Finland: Elisabet II is dead, long live Kaarle III

We in Finland have a long tradition of re-naming the royals to fit our language, so a king George is in our history books Yrjö, and Elizabeth is slightly more understandably Elisabet. But since Elizabeth II reigned so long, I never realised the board of Finnish language has in the meantime renewed their recommendations and now in the official press, Charles III is just Charles III, not Kaarle III like we all expected him to be. Charles sounds like some random bloke was just dragged off  from the streets to be the King, Kaarle sounds like an actual king. My friends are at the moment arguing what to call him and many are stubborly calling him Kaarle. I am of the opinion that if you are any royal worth your salt, you should be getting a weird, awkward Finnish name for Finnish use.

2 years ago

People really think that Sansa lying at trial on Trident to save her bethrotal. As if Sansa words could change the decision that was taken by king. They really think Sansa had power similar to the adults around her. When Ned told the truth, it didn't have impact then why king and queen will take Sansa words for evidence. If Sansa had told the truth, Cersei could easily debunk it by saying she is just a child and her confession was probably influenced by Ned. No one cared about her condition.

What's fun about this whole discussion is that everyone who condemns Sansa for being a liar ignores the minor detail that we don't know what Sansa was going to say because she was interrupted.

His eldest daughter stepped forward hesitantly. She was dressed in blue velvets trimmed with white, a silver chain around her neck. Her thick auburn hair had been brushed until it shone. She blinked at her sister, then at the young prince. "I don't know," she said tearfully, looking as though she wanted to bolt. "I don't remember. Everything happened so fast, I didn't see …"

"You rotten!" Arya shrieked. She flew at her sister like an arrow, knocking Sansa down to the ground, pummeling her. "Liar, liar, liar, liar."

"Arya, stop it!" Ned shouted. Jory pulled her off her sister, kicking. Sansa was pale and shaking as Ned lifted her back to her feet. "Are you hurt?" he asked, but she was staring at Arya, and she did not seem to hear.

The next time Sansa speaks is at the end of the hearing when she begs for Lady's life. We don't know what all Sansa would have said because she only had the chance to speak 13 words.

This is similar to what happened in Arya I where Arya assumes the worst and loses her temper. It isn’t a coincidence that the pattern repeats. The author purposefully inserted that. And if Sansa was already nervous, after being tackled and beaten, there was no way she was going to recover and intervene with the truth. Let's reread that initial paragraph:

His eldest daughter stepped forward hesitantly.

First, we’re told she told Ned the truth earlier, and I think we can infer from her behavior here, he didn't coach her or assure her that the truth is what she should say. From the get go, she doesn't know what to do.

She was dressed in blue velvets trimmed with white, a silver chain around her neck. Her thick auburn hair had been brushed until it shone. She blinked at her sister, then at the young prince.

Oh, interesitng, she’s torn, she knows she is choosing between one or the other, that speaking is choosing a side.

"I don't know," she said tearfully, looking as though she wanted to bolt.

She is in way beyond her depth. Saying she doesn’t know can read as a simple “I don’t know what happened” but it is also true in the sense that she clearly has no idea what to say here.

"I don't remember. Everything happened so fast, I didn't see …"

I’m not convinced this is entirely a lie. Arya believes it is because she is primed to judge Sansa harshly, but the reader knows things Arya doesn’t. Namely, Sansa had been drinking. I do think it was hard for Sansa to comprehend what was happening in the moment and still hard for her to explain/talk about it after, not only because of the drinking, but also because of the suddenness of the escalation. It did happen fast. And, we aren’t privy to what she was going to say she “didn’t see” or what all she would have finally said (a defense of Arya or a condemnation of Joffrey) because she was stopped by the impact of a furious Arya. Describing what happened as Sansa lying (to me) gives a totally different impression than what I have when I read this section, and I think if you compare this to Arya’s first chapter you notice that while Arya assumes the worst about Sansa, we don’t necessarily know that she’s right to do so. In fact, I think knowing how Martin likes to play the POV game with us, and some of the other uncharitable things she thinks about Sansa, I’d say we know Arya isn’t right. Arya assumed Sansa was about to totally defend Joffrey, but being that Sansa already told Ned the truth, I don’t think she was about to lie. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Regardless, the choice to ignore Cersei and Robert’s roles here, the real point of the scene IMO, is very odd. Continuing:

"The girl is as wild as that filthy animal of hers," Cersei Lannister said. "Robert, I want her punished."

"Seven hells," Robert swore. "Cersei, look at her. She's a child. What would you have me do, whip her through the streets? Damn it, children fight. It's over. No lasting harm was done."

The queen was furious. "Joff will carry those scars for the rest of his life."

Robert Baratheon looked at his eldest son. "So he will. Perhaps they will teach him a lesson. Ned, see that your daughter is disciplined. I will do the same with my son."

"Gladly, Your Grace," Ned said with vast relief.

Robert started to walk away, but the queen was not done. "And what of the direwolf?" she called after him. "What of the beast that savaged your son?"

The king stopped, turned back, frowned. "I'd forgotten about the damned wolf."

Ned could see Arya tense in Jory's arms. Jory spoke up quickly. "We found no trace of the direwolf, Your Grace."

Robert did not look unhappy. "No? So be it."

The queen raised her voice. "A hundred golden dragons to the man who brings me its skin!"

"A costly pelt," Robert grumbled. "I want no part of this, woman. You can damn well buy your furs with Lannister gold."

The queen regarded him coolly. "I had not thought you so niggardly. The king I'd thought to wed would have laid a wolfskin across my bed before the sun went down."

Robert's face darkened with anger. "That would be a fine trick, without a wolf."

"We have a wolf," Cersei Lannister said. Her voice was very quiet, but her green eyes shone with triumph.

It took them all a moment to comprehend her words, but when they did, the king shrugged irritably. "As you will. Have Ser Ilyn see to it."

"Robert, you cannot mean this," Ned protested.

The king was in no mood for more argument. "Enough, Ned, I will hear no more. A direwolf is a savage beast. Sooner or later it would have turned on your girl the same way the other did on my son. Get her a dog, she'll be happier for it."

That was when Sansa finally seemed to comprehend. Her eyes were frightened as they went to her father. "He doesn't mean Lady, does he?" She saw the truth on his face. "No," she said. "No, not Lady, Lady didn't bite anybody, she's good …"

(AGOT, Eddard III)

Jaime says later that Cersei meant to have Arya’s hand which means Arya was in danger here and Ned’s reaction confirms that the author intended us to understand that in this moment. However, Lady’s fate is decided by the dynamics of Cersei and Robert, not by the events at the Trident, but Robert’s obsession with Rhaegar and Cersei’s ability to press his buttons. Not even Ned’s intervening could save her which is why I believe we’re meant to understand this scene works primarily as a continuation of the discussion of justice and how the king fails to deliver it. It also is the beginning of Ned’s downfall (taking an innocent life, a gift of the gods), and the crack in Ned’s relationship with Sansa leading to her disobedience later, but I just don’t think the point is that Sansa did something wrong. So, I agree with you that it’s silly for people’s takeaway to be that Sansa could have stopped this if she wanted. If she told the unvarnished truth it could have fed Cersei’s fury and made her demand Arya be punished more insistently and there’s no telling how much effort Robert would have put into refusing her. I think we’re meant to understand that the situation is very precarious, so precarious even Ned wasn’t sure that Arya was safe.

I wrote this in defense of Sansa a while ago

People Really Think That Sansa Lying At Trial On Trident To Save Her Bethrotal. As If Sansa Words Could

and I really think readings in which Sansa is made responsible miss them entire point of justice and injustice, Sansa as a representative of innocence, and instead substitute in a very simplistic view that does nothing for the characters or themes (link).

And of course, the association the girls have with their direwolves that Martin just established must be ignored in order to make Sansa somehow guilty here too

People Really Think That Sansa Lying At Trial On Trident To Save Her Bethrotal. As If Sansa Words Could

so I don’t think it’s stan nonsense to push back on the idea that the author intended for us to find Sansa culpable here. There are lots of reasons to doubt that (link).

To me, there’s no reason to think this ends in a better way, no matter what Sansa said, but the fact remains that Sansa was stopped before she had a real chance to relay what happened, and based on the previous interaction of the girls, based on the emphasis on Lady’s innocence and the connection between the direwolves and their girls, I think we’re meant to know better than assume that Arya’s interpretation of Sansa is correct.

2 years ago
I’m Not Going To Explain Myself
I’m Not Going To Explain Myself
I’m Not Going To Explain Myself

I’m not going to explain myself

2 years ago

an underrated detail in pride and prejudice is that elizabeth bennett was home alone on the day darcy proposed because she had a headache. can you imagine. this was in the pre-painkillers era. you're at home with a headache and then this asshole walks into the room and tells you he loves you and wants to marry you even though he hates your whole family and you're beneath him. imagine having to deal with that while also having a headache. she doesn't even have ibuprofen

2 years ago

I have the feeling that Mike would lose all respect for Eddie if he sees him together with Steve. He sees Eddie pathetically flirting with an oblivious Steve and pulls a face, then goes to complain to Will about why Eddie has to have a crush on Steve. Will gets nervous bc fuck Mike is homophobic? but Mike just tells him about That Night (the one before 'human anatomy?') and that Eddie can't be cool anymore when he likes Steve who lost any chances of being genuinely respected by Mike. And now that Eddie has a crush/is dating Steve, all illusions of Eddie's charm are lost forever (this might also lead to Will coming out to Mike when he realizes that he wouldn't hate him and perhaps Mike coming out and love confessions and-)

So, whenever Steddie do something in front of the Party Mike has his look of irritation on his face and Eddie thinks he misjudged Mike when he notices bc Mike might be a little homophobic? Which doesn't fit into the whole dynamic he has going with Will but who knows. So Eddie asks him (in front of everyone bc he's not above outing a homophobe to their very accepting friend group) and Mike pulls that face again and just seconds before he opens his mouth Eddie recognizes it as regret and realizes Mike Wheeler is a little piece of shit. "I just can't believe I thought you were cool once" and Will (who now that he heard the story would give a lot to have seen that firsthand) starts to laugh while Eddie fully realizes that he lost any cool points he ever had with Mike

In the beginning, Eddie is so confused bc this child used to admire him, listen to everything he had to say, worship the ground he walks on and now he's dragging him every chance he gets. When Eddie asks why Mike suddenly lost all interest in him Will whispers 'it's the Harrington effect', Mike just nods and that's the only answer he gets

Mike becomes just as snarky and annoying with Eddie as he is with everyone else. And every time Mike gives him that look that says 'you're as dumb as a rock Eddie how do you not know this' Eddie is incredibly close to strangling him but also kind of happy that Mike finally is himself around him and not the blind puppy he was before

Eddie is also reluctantly impressed (reluctant bc now he can't give Mike the satisfaction of being impressed, not when he's such a brat) with Mike's problem-solving bc we know it's Mike who usually figures everything out. At least now he knows why Mike was such a good strategist during their campaign

Steve gives him a pat on the back in a moment of despair and says that it's probably his fault. Hopper chimes in that Mike is allergic to any kind of father/authority figure and that, now that he has parent status in the Party, it's just a natural development. Eddie has a whole new crisis that he's now some kind of father figure to the kids

2 years ago

Pov- Mike after the Quarry incident can't wear that specific shirt because it freaks Dustin out.

2 years ago

I always wonder whether Batfam fans really get just how fucking rich the Waynes are. Like of course we shy away from thinking about the fact that we're talking Musk and Bezos money, and focus on how Bruce funds the freaking Watchtower and has what is functionally a high-tech military base and lab and the world's most expensive vehicles. But this is the one time you don't have to factor in the implications of wealth-hoarding, so there's nothing preventing y'all from understanding exactly how much money we're talking about here.

For instance, there doesn't seem to be any concept of how palatial Wayne Manor is, simply going by the outer facades of it that appear in the comics and movies. Or how decadent the lifestyles that accompany that kind of ancestral home. Alfred couldn't run that place on his own even if he had super powers, which is why even the movies occasionally show a rotating probably-temporary staff in the background. The house probably has like 3 hundred-foot pools. Their garden is a protected heritage park.

The Waynes are 10x richer than Crazy Rich Asians. They buy and wear the jewelry worth hundreds of millions that belonged to royalty. They own private islands. The art in the house alone is worth more than the GDP of a small country. They went to school with like every US President since Teddy Roosevelt and still think the Rockefellers are new money. They're personal friends with Beyonce and can get her to perform at private parties. They can rent out an entire three-star Michelin restaurant and fly out to one for every date. They have top-line penthouse apartments in every major city in the world. They can buy a luxury sportscar instead of hiring a vehicle anywhere they visit and then just toss the keys to the nearest person on their way out (Arab royalty is known for this appearently. There's been some very lucky parking valets in the UAE iirc).

Bruce is as rich as Ra's Al Ghul, regularly make social calls to heads of state and his family has a history of being king-makers. Every one of Bruce's children, from Dick to Jason to Cass, is poised to inherit one of the largest and most powerful fortunes in the world. That means every time Bruce adopts an orphan off god-knows-where, the entire global elite is thrown into consternation and horror. Even Tim is barely acceptable to these people because he doesn't have the pedigree. I don't follow the reboot comics so Idk if Duke is adopted, but it would be so fucking funny if he was because they'd react a lot like the British establishment did to Meghan Markle (except the family and WE would have Duke's back completely). As for Damian, the fact that he's not white would get him snubbed if everyone who's anyone didn't 100% know who Ra's Al Ghul is. And they're fucking terrified because, for maximum hilarity, they probably figure that Bruce doesn't.

I just find it incredibly fucking funny when I'm reading fics that the writers can only imagine Bruce and the kids's civilian privileges extend only to "big house", "a lot of cars" and "Gotham famous". Lol. Lmao even.


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1 year ago

there’s something endlessly hilarious to me about the phrase “hotly debated” in an academic context. like i just picture a bunch of nerds at podiums & one’s like “of course there was a paleolithic bear cult in Northern Eurasia” and another one just looks him in the eye and says “i’l kill you in real life, kevin”

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she/they

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