We Need To Turn Bill Cipher Into A Tumblr Sillyman The Way We’re Doing With Spamton. Enough With The

THE DELETED SCENE WHERE FORD SPITS INTO BILLS EYE AND THEN HE LICKS IT ??!!

Heba Zagout (Palestinian), 1984–2023

killed in an Israeli air strike in Gaza.

I just felt the need to compile these, I've been unwell about them if you couldn't tell.

bill hating his parents and having an awful relationship with them being like an extra-canon/word of god trivia is so interesting to me because it really hits you in the face with "bill cipher is just a person" and also ties into the major theme about family if you think about it a bit

Sketches of Russian women's costumes (1965)

Ivan: Cowboy, I'm not going to celebrate your satanic holiday, damn it, you're dressing up as some demons and you think I'll treat this as something normal?

Kolyadki

Ivan as a child:

Ivan: Kolyada, kolyada! Open the gates and take out the chests, give us coins, even a ruble (1), even a nickel (5), we will not leave you just like that. Give us a piece of candy, or maybe a coin, don't be a jerk, Christmas Eve is coming soon!

Ivan: On New Year's Eve I wish you an aspen coffin, a stake and a grave, and a sick mare (curse)

_______________________________

Maslenitsa

(Maslenitsa is a pagan holiday still celebrated in Russia. Meaning: people see off winter by burning an effigy symbolizing the Goddess of Winter Morena. People bake crepes. Crepes, at least in Russia, appeared as a funeral food, which is consumed during funerals. At the moment, crepes are a common dish, but crepes are still an important dish for Maslenitsa):

Ivan: Die, Morana (Goddess of Death/Rebirth/Winter.), die, die, die, yes yes yes, die

Ivan Kupala (Kupala Night):

There is very little information in the English wikipedia

The holiday combines two elements: pagan and Christian. Previously, this holiday existed independently, but after the baptism of Russia, the holiday acquired a Christian meaning and elements. The main feature of Kupala night is the cleansing bonfires. Around the fire, people danced, danced, sang Kupala songs, jumped over it: whoever is more successful and jumps higher, he will be happier. Girls jump through the fire "to purify themselves and protect themselves from dumbness, spoilage, conspiracies," and so that "mermaids do not attack and do not come for a year." Evil spirits come to life on this holiday, people performed certain rituals to scare away witches, mermaids and other evil spirits. Also, people wove wreaths of certain flowers, which also carry a magical meaning, women let such wreaths on the water to tell themselves an early wedding or a long life. Also on this holiday it is customary to look for a fern flower, which according to Slavic beliefs, the fern blooms only for a moment, on the night before Ivan Kupala (on June 24 [July 7 in Russia]); it is very difficult to pluck a flower, especially since the evil spirit prevents this in every possible way and intimidates a person, in some cases depriving him of reason, speech, memory. Picking the flower of a fern and keeping it with him acquires unusual possibilities. Man becomes visionary, can understand the language of animals, see all the treasures.

bill cipher is so funny to me i love him so much i cannot believe people thought he was some kind of sexy tall guy back in the show's heyday. like are you kidding me this is a cute little thing with a silly hat and a funny bowtie and he has noodley arms and tiny hands and sock feet. he looks like a cereal mascot. he looks like an oldschool kirby antagonist. he looks like a bootleg toy you'd win at a fair. this creature is a small animal to me. i want to lounge on the couch watching tv while i pet him in my lap. he would leave me gouged out eyeballs of local wildlife and neighbour's pets on my front porch but i would just tell everyone Its ok he just has a lot of energy and ambition and personality :) don't worry about it

me talking about bill 99% of the time: look bill is tragic when you look even a little bit beneath the surface, but i'm not gonna act like his defense attorney, he's already got one of those. at the end of the day he is a fundamentally fucked up person, and while it's incredibly sad to track how and why he got that way and he may be capable of improvement, nearly every action he has ever taken in his adult life has been horrifying and abusive and there's no excuse for all the people he has abused, tortured, hurt or killed over the countless eons he's been alive

me the minute i start to think about the circles:

Since I wrote an analysis looking into Bill's view of and relationship with Ford a while ago, I thought I'd do the same with Bill and Mabel, especially since the other analysis is partially supported with points about those two.

Comparing these posts, while the one about Bill and Ford is like "I believe Ford is very important to Bill and here's why", this one's more the reverse, as in "it's confirmed that Bill is fond of Mabel and I'm gonna look at their interactions and relevant episodes through that lense"

Bringing up the points of confirmation first, "Dipper's and Mabel's Guide to Mystery and Nonstop Fun" has Bill bringing up that he likes Mabel

and in the DVD commentary for Sock Opera, Alex Hirsch says the following:

“Bill genuinely believes that Mabel’s kinda like him. He sees Mabel as a chaos agent. Like, Mabel has got a little bit of a seed of anarchy in her, she’s a little bit selfish, she likes to have fun at whatever cost. And Bill is all those things times a billion. So he thinks when he lays it all out for her like: ‘How about instead of being lame, you do something fun! And crush whoever you want in the process!’. He thinks that’s gonna go over. And he’s not wrong in seeing that side in Mabel but Mabel is a better person than Bill Cipher.”

Which are just really interesting to me, especially since the show doesn't make it very obvious that Bill has this view on Mabel. But it certainly does put their dynamic into a new perspective.

For instance, there's the scene in Sock Opera where Bill tries to convince Dipper to make a deal with him by "calling out" Mabel:

which I'm tempted to compare to the bit in Journal 3 where Ford mentions that Bill "warned" him that Fiddleford may not be dedicated to the portal project.

To be exact there's two ways I'd compare these interactions. For one, in both cases Bill is putting a wedge between two people via manipulation to further his own goals. Second, you could argue that Bill himself genuinely believes what he's saying here.

I mean, this is the episode with the commentary basically telling us that Bill believes Mabel to be as selfish as himself. The examples he gives Dipper of the so-called sacrifices he made for Mabel aren't even that strong? One is Dipper just rescuing Mabel, one is Dipper fixing a situation that he messed with in the first place and caused Mabel to loose something, and the one where he did make a sacrifice but just so Mabel can help a third party, rather than for her own personal interest.

But of course Bill would view these as sacrifices that Mabel would owe Dipper for. Bill wouldn't give anything up for someone else if he's not getting something out of it.

As for the Ford and Fiddleford situation, if you haven't read my other post my thoughts on Bill's views on Ford basically boil down to "Bill defenetly started out bullshitting Ford when he told him he was special and they were friends, but these feelings became genuine".

And while you can make a strong case that it hasn't gotten to that point until shortly after the betrayal, considering Bill was gloating when Ford confronted him, I still want to put the idea out there that Bill started to believe Ford was actually outstanding and Bill may be able to let him in on his full intentions eventually while Fiddleford had far less potential to go through with everything.

But anyway all this really goes back to Bill possibly genuinely thinking Mabel "owed" Dipper something (because helping someone and expecting something in return is something he would do) and using that to manipulate Dipper, and him also thinking Mabel was seizing the opportunity all those times without ever returning anything to Dipper and as a result starting to see himself in her because that is something he would do.

But the reality is that while every party has to put effort into a relationship, relationships aren't transactional and Mabel wouldn't leave Dipper in the dust when it comes down to it, which this episode builds up to.

Now, I do want to say here that Sock Opera is about addressing Mabel's selfishness and that she was in the wrong here, but do not take this as me hating her or anything. Mabel is a twelve and will make poor choices in her own interest sometimes. And the point of comparing her selfishness to Bill's is that she's willing to own up to it and clearly has her limits because she cares about other people whereas Bill doesn't own up to anything and has no concern about how his actions affect anyone else.

Also, assuming Bill did take a liking to Mabel at this point, I think it's intruiging to think about the above dialouge as Bill wanting to "help" Mabel. To convince her to ditch Dipper in favor of her own self-interest because it'll be freeing. Because Bill's own reckless, selfish choices have only made him feel less restricted and absolutely never ever caused him any regret at all.

Well anyway let's skip forwards to Weirdmageddon.

The build-up towards Weirdmageddon concerning Mabel comes with her gaining more and more reason to be afraid of the future and the struggles that she expects to come with it until everything just boils over and Bill manipulates her into handing him the rift by posing as Blendin and promising to let her have a bit more time in Gravity Falls. And, in a way, he keeps that promise.

Despite Mabel and Bill not at all interacting between the rift breaking and the climax of the finale, I think the whole Mabel Land situation is sooo interesting in terms of showcasing the ways Mabel and Bill are similar but yet so different.

Now, the section of the Axolotl poem I put just a bit above in this post carries some very intruiging implications with it. Like you're telling me Bill regrets burning his dimension yet frames it as a positive thing and even plans to do it again with another dimension? And despite his silly jokester demeanor he's actually unhappy?

Perhaps being afraid of acknowledging his mistake and growing past it and accepting that life will always come with difficulties?

being so very deep in denial about it and his own feelings about it?

and drowning all that out by reveling in the chaos of the Nightmare Realm and throwing parties even though none of that will really be fulfilling?

You can also probably say something about how both Mabel Land and the Nightmare Realm are pictured as literal bubbles.

and how Bill thought it was basically impossible to escape Mabel Land and was pretty confident in that to the point where he seemed to just stop paying attention to it and not notice it bursting despite it being placed in the most notable location in the town, near the Fearamid.

And to go back to "despite their similarities, Mabel and Bill are very different", part of the reason Mabel escapes her literal and metaphorical bubble and Bill doesn't is because she has a support system. Mabel has people who look out and care for her because she has looked out and cared for them.

Bill on the other hand? His relationship with the Henchmaniacs doesn't go much deeper than party buddies who are also his lackeys who are also his punching bags if he's upset.

And while he's shown to be willing to be vulnerable with Ford, he's still way too deep in his own denial to open up a wound that deep, on top of Ford having every reason in the world to want to have nothing to do with Bill. The man has tried to kill him several times and was entirely justified in that.

-

Moving on to a point that's more about Bill being fond of Mabel rather than similarities and that I also brought up about Ford, the fact that Bill spares their lives during Weirdmageddon.

Like, the Bipper note and Bill telling his henchmen they can go eat Dipper tells me he's very much down to kill anyone who's a threat to him. And once you take the Quantum Destabilizer out of the picture, the only apparent threat is the zodiac wheel. Meaning every member of the zodiac has a target on their back.

Note that the only zodiacs Bill has contact with during Weirdmageddon, prior to the climax, are Dipper, Ford, Mabel and Gideon.

Dipper, again, he attempted to get killed even before Weirdmageddon. Gideon temporarily served as his henchman as part of a deal and was possibly only kept alive afterwards for the sake of being punshed.

Mabel and Ford meanwhile? Got their lives spared for no apparent reason other than Bill simply wanted to.

I guess you can argue that the whole Mabel Land business was part of the deal with Gideon but I always assumed the deal was just for Bill to break him out and put him in a good place during the apocalypse, plus Gideon didn't seem to care much about Mabel's well-being at this point. Still, it does help Bill if he can hold Mabel in front of Gideon but I do like to think he also spared her just out of having grown a liking to her.

The more it strikes me then that the scene at the start of Weirdmageddon where Bill could've easily taken out Mabel but just snapped her unconscious instead,

seems to mirror the scene near the end of Weirdmageddon where he's about to snap out her life.

This and Bill seemingly being done with Ford at this point as well almost feels like Bill is dissapointed by the fact that Mabel and Ford both proved to be more different from him than he thought - Mabel by getting out of the manifestation of escapism and Ford by refusing to accept Bill's offer no matter what - and lashed out at them for it.

In some of the neutral endings, Sans has been shown to have told Papyrus that his friends simply "went on a vacation" when they've been killed by you/frisk because he doesn't have the heart to tell him what really happened, like how he omits the truth of what happened to papyrus to Toriel in order to preserve the "perfect little angel" image she has of Frisk

Papyrus "accepts" that in his presence but the second he's not in the room, he drops his cheery and naive facade to tell you how he really feels

So if anything, they're both protecting eachother from less than savory truths, but yeah, he has some streaks of lying

you're RIGHT thank you anon. i forgot about those endings entirely. those are a good bit of characterization to keep in mind in any conversation about sans and lying. thank you! let's think about this...

personally, in my characterizations of sans, i've always interpreted sans's "vacation" excuse as part of his nihilism--if you know you're stuck in a time loop, and you know you've reached the "end" of the time loop, then everyone who died is actually about to come back. Combined with some pretty heavy depression, you might think of everyone who died as just getting to skip out on the sad epilogue. especially since sans doesn't die in literally any epilogue*, I've always thought of that as less protective and more...conflict avoidant? cracks in the facade?

like, at the end of the loop, his actions no longer matter. the human is not in the underground, and they're the one with all the power. outside of that phone call, he has no further effect on them and therefore the world in general, outside of his relatively small circle. so i think the things said about sans in those phone calls reveal a different side of him. after all, no one will remember this soon, so he doesn't have to keep up the "i'm a normal guy who only knows about regular linear time and therefore believes in a future" thing. so...yeah. permanence isn't permanent. everyone is on vacation. they all get to take a little dirt nap and he's just waiting for them to come back. why break toriel's heart when this is all going to end halfway through that conversation? I think it's less about lying to deceive (after all, Toriel and Papyrus are both perfectly capable of finding the truth), and more about the interesting shapes sans twists his understanding of reality into in order to understand that people are dead without taking the time to process that grief. He's mostly telling himself that people are on vacation. They're fine, maybe even lucky, and they'll come back soon so he doesn't have to worry about it. that's what allows him to function and even help rule** in bad endings, and how he's able to avoid totally breaking down after papyrus's death in those runs. no one is dead. they're just resting.

That said, he does say that to Papyrus knowing that it's literally, factually not true. He super does lie either to impart his horrible coping skills or to avoid having a conversation he doesn't like. It's also a really bad sign for his relationship with reality that he's just saying this with no regard for how insane he sounds. And, given how he does step up to rule in the King Papyrus ending...maybe he doesn't assume a reset is coming and I'm wrong about all of that. But my interpretation is that "everyone is on vacation actually" and "haha nah my brother is fine he's just...not around...ever..." are both so transparent that they can't be genuine attempts to deceive. Frankly, Sans is just a better liar than that.

So...tl;dr: Sans does lie! I was wrong about that. but I think he lies to protect himself more than anyone else. I don't really see it as something so...altruistic? controlling? condescending?? as lying for Papyrus and Toriel's sake. he just can't handle confronting reality, and god forbid he have a conversation about it.

*Sans may or may not die in the no mercy but in any case the world ends like 3 minutes after that so...not much of an "epilogue" to live in. he survives basically as long as the timeline does.

**In the King Papyrus ending, Sans does "paperwork" and dictates policy decisions such as how humans will be judged (which, his policy there is interesting in and of itself). Papyrus says Sans is "working hard." My takeaway from this is that Sans is doing most of the logistical ruling, while Papyrus works on the absolute disaster of morale. Unclear whether Sans has a role in Alphys's ending. He seems to drift towards whoever is closest to him of the survivors, and help them with whatever they need.