It Is Not Really A Shock That This Fandom Has A Bit Of A Misogyny Problem, But I Think A Specific One

it is not really a shock that this fandom has a bit of a misogyny problem, but i think a specific one is how the boys are often somewhat babied and given all sorts of pity for every single tiny thing they go through, while the girls with similar issues are often ignored entirely. there are many examples of this, but right now, i am going to talk at length about the Tenmas and the Shinonomes in particular, as them being pairs of siblings allows very direct comparison.

firstly, the one that irks me most: Tsukasa Tenma, and how a ridiculous number of his fans will make absolutely everything about him. including Saki's disability. i do think it's right to acknowledge the impact on him as well- but it gets overdramatic really quickly. i'm sorry to be harsh, but Saki did not spend her childhood in and out of hospitals, believing that she was dying, just for half the fandom to completely brush over her trauma and be like "oh... poor, lonely Tsukasa..."

i rather hate this, because not only does it feel quite ableist to skim over the one directly suffering from the condition in order to massively favour someone who happens to feel a bit of the knock-on effect, but it's also used to unreasonably villainise the Tenma parents. people will go on about how "neglected" Tsukasa was... very well, how exactly would you have handled the situation? they did their absolute best. it was a highly unfortunate situation for everyone involved, and it's unfair to deem Mrs and Mr Tenma as "bad parents" simply because they prioritised their dangerously ill daughter over their confident son who always assured them that he'd be alright. yes, they could have made better choices for Tsukasa, such as hiring a babysitter... but i think people tend to forget that Saki's illness flared up very suddenly and randomly. as the good parents the Tenmas are, they very likely couldn't think properly due to their panic for their daughter. it was instinct to drop everything and get her immediate help. and Tsukasa himself understands this, so it's an absolute wonder that the fandom doesn't. he was not ignored. he was phoned, updated on the situation, reassured that his sister was recovering... and praised by his parents for being such a wonderful brother.

also, with the situation of Saki's hospitalisation, i do feel like Tsukasa's own personality is sometimes not taken into account, ironic since it's him that everyone's interested in. because i would, in fact, be more critical of the Tenma parents, had Tsukasa been a more fragile child. if he had been the type who was easily scared, who could not handle being by himself, who would, in fact, have been traumatised from being left alone- i would say that the Tenma parents would have deserved the treatment they get from the fandom. but... that's not Tsukasa. it has been shown that Tsukasa was always a very bright, self-assured boy, positively brimming with confidence. even when little, he was creative and strong- and his parents knew this. they could have some peace of mind during a stressful time, knowing that their son could entertain himself with ease, such as how he was practising some acting just before his mother rang him. all of this is shown within the Dazzling Stage event which is, funnily enough, the very same event that the lovers of Tsukasa angst latch onto.

of course Tsukasa was heavily concerned about Saki. he is an incredibly caring person, why wouldn't he be? and yes, of course he missed her while she was in the hospital. no one is trying to deny that, nor minimise his suffering. the fandom does that to Saki. while acknowledging that Tsukasa was affected is good, in fact, it is very interesting to see the impact of disabilities beyond those directly affected... it's the fact that it is majorly Tsukasa's issues that are focused on that confuses me. it's disproportionate. i do wish we saw just as much sympathy and discussion about Saki herself, in addition to her brother. the psychological impact that her illness and consequential exclusion had on her, as well as the obvious physical aspect. because that is just as interesting, if not potentially more so, and i will be making a future post about it.

moving on from the Tenmas, i'd now like to talk about the Shinonome siblings, in a little less detail, considering i personally have not witnessed the unfairness of their treatment as much as that between the Tenmas. though, make no mistake, it still exists.

now, Ena is a character who i feel has a certain percentage of those who dislike her. and what are the general traits that people point out when asked why they aren't a fan? from what i've seen, it is her anger management issues, past violence, and a general "tsundere" type of personality that earns her this criticism. i'm not saying she does not have any of this. she absolutely does. she is flawed, as good, complex characters should be. though, everything she is despised for... who else regularly displays the exact same traits?

none other than her own brother, Akito. yet the dislike for him, while it is obviously around, does not seem quite as common as hers. a very short and hot temper? check. shows of violence? check. a sometimes harsh way of speaking? check. can sound aggressive and off-putting on occassion? check. Akito and Ena are incredibly similar when it comes to their more negative traits. i suppose it's not a surprise, considering that they were both brought up in the same, questionable environment. though, why does Ena seem to be hated so much more?

most will bring up the very infamous mention of how Ena and Akito's fights would get physical when they were younger. and how this makes Ena an "abuser" because supposedly, as she is the elder one, there was an imbalance in power... but was there really? it is incredibly controversial to say, but i do believe that the violence between them, particularly that which was committed by Ena, is quite exaggerated by fans. and here is where i think that Akito tends to be babied.

Ena was not significantly stronger than Akito. perhaps not ever physically stronger than him at all except when they were literal babies. there is only one year of difference between their ages. in the current day, it is no debate that Akito is one of the strongest characters, regularly going on runs, being able to sprint with Tsukasa on his back, while Ena is quite on the opposite end of the spectrum, preferring the indoors and such. what i am saying is that it is absurd how the fandom makes it seem like Akito was some utterly defenceless little toddler that was getting beaten up by his Big Bad Sister. realistically, he was fully capable of fighting back- and he does. it's hardly as if we see him cower before her. he has absolutely no issue retorting to her in a snarky manner. when people bring up the whole drama of Ena scratching him, they conveniently forget what he says directly afterwards- that he could dodge her attacks. not to mention, sibling fights getting physical and a little violent is incredibly common, take it from me- i am an oldest sister myself. if you call Ena an abuser, you are saying that you want half the older siblings in this world behind bars.

oh, and people will talk until they're blue in the face about how the "nasty" and "crazy" Ena scratched up her brother when they were younger- are we forgetting that Akito punched Toya in the literal main story? that left a massive bruise on his cheek. that isn't talked about nearly as much as some common sibling scrap.

if you can let similar behaviour slide from Akito... how come it is unacceptable from his older sister? who is, arguably, from what has been shown in the story so far... under the greater amount of stress from the tension within their family. it was her that was explicitly discouraged by their father. we haven't seen such conflict between Shinei and his son, have we? that's not to say that Akito's current personality isn't also explained, having grown up in that environment, but why is it that Ena receives so much less sympathy than him when she, understandably, lashes out?

Saki and Ena have both had it rough. in their own, very different, ways. yet, a staggering amount of pity is given, not to them, but to their respective brothers.

and i must, sadly, wonder... if the mere genders of these four characters happened to be swapped and all else remained as it is...

... would the perception of any of them be quite the same?

"i cant go back to being a bud again."

Your (Curtain) Call - Thoughts

Hey, it's been a while, huh? But the call of plot progression was too exciting for me to remain silent any longer. Trial 3 baby here we go!!!

And what a way to kick off the trial! There sure is a fair bit to talk about, so let's do just that.

CW: Murder, suicide, suicide threats, psychological torture (Unforgiven votes)

General Thoughts

WOOOO MILGRAM TRIAL 3 IS COMING!!! The excitement is through the roof!!! I am very desensitized to character deaths so my desire for more content currently supersedes the sadness I am feeling!!!! Still, without any other info on T3 atm, I should probably talk about the thing we do have, no?

First thing to establish, I'm going in with the assumption that the three who didn't show up in Your (Curtain) Call are just dead, because I see no reason to believe otherwise. So, Haruka, Shidou and Mahiru are gone.

I'm frankly not all that surprised. Like, we knew what Haruka was gonna do from the moment Muu's verdict came out Unforgiven, the conversation Mahiru had with Kotoko in Kotoko's last birthday made it pretty clear she wasn't going to last much longer, and Shidou's death was always on the table when Amane's voting period finally closed. The big question was whether the writers would commit to killing off the characters before the true start of T3, and I'm actually kinda glad the answer to that was yes. Obviously I would have appreciated more time with them, and I sincerely hope against hope that we still get a T3 song for all of them, but the deaths are a good way to send the message to the audience that yes, consequences exist in Milgram, and yes, they're very serious.

Basically I'm actually kinda chilling, but that may just be because I... Look I like all the Milgram characters, but these three were never my favorites. I appreciated them, I enjoyed their existence and discussing them, but I'm ultimately more attached to other characters. So, in a sense, I kinda lucked out. Very sorry to those who can't say the same.

Where We Go From Here

Now, before talking about where I think we may go from here, I'm going to talk a bit about the verdicts that led to this. But since this is a contentious topic, I'll establish a few things that I'm sure you're all aware about, but bear repeating just in case.

-I don't believe there are any "right" or "wrong" verdicts, just those which I agree or disagree with. The decisions are difficult and multi-faceted, and usually had to be made with limited information. We're all trying our best here, so even if you disagree with someone else' perspective, it's important to remain respectful of it. If at any point in this post I come off as insulting to anyone else's choices, I apologize, it's not my intention.

-Hindsight is 20/20, but that means it's a distorted perspective. No one was completely certain of many things throughout the voting process. Even if things turned out exactly how you thought they would, or nothing happened like you hoped it might, keep in mind that no one could be 100% sure of some things before the release of Your (Curtain) Call. Basically, going "I told you so" doesn't help anyone.

-At the end of the day, these are fictional characters. It's perfectly fine to be emotionally invested in them, and feel strongly about their fates, but perspective is important. No one actually died, no one's hurt. You can regret your choices or be upset at the verdicts, but keep in mind it's ultimately just a web series.

With that established, the voting. Now, the arguments about Forgiven or Unforgiven have already been had and I have little interest in repeating discussions from the past. But I've never talked much about some of these verdicts here, and I know some of you may be interested in knowing my perspective on them and how I feel about them. Again, the following is simply my opinion, no better than yours, we're gonna disagree on some things and that's fine.

Haruka, Shidou and Mahiru will never get to react to their T2 verdicts in earnest. The verdicts to discuss, then, are Muu's and Amane's from T2, and Mahiru's and Kotoko's from T1. Obviously there's other verdicts involved here, but those are the most pressing ones in my eyes.

-I don't agree with the Unforgiven Muu verdict, and I held that opinion for a long time before Your (Curtain) Call released. I fully understand why it happened, I'm not upset it happened, and I don't hold it against anyone who voted her Unforgiven, but I respectfully disagree with the decision.

Of course, it's easy to say I would have Forgiven her when we now know for sure it would have avoided a death, but an Unforgiven vote was always way more dangerous than a Forgiven vote. Sure, Haruka, could have survived the attempt, but the best way to guarantee his safety would have been Forgiving Muu. That's why I held this opinion before the release of Your (Curtain) Call, even if I don't think I ever mentioned it.

Mind you, a Forgiven vote came with its own risks. It would have enforced a very dangerous mindset on Muu's part, and bending to the suicide threat would have enabled Haruka's self-destructive and manipulative tendencies. He probably would have made the same threat in T3 if we'd let him have his way. This is one of many reasons why I understand the verdict.

But those are things that can be dealt with once everyone's out of the hell prison; death isn't. And while it's true that an Unforgiven vote is the only way we have to get across to Muu that she did a bad thing, that doesn't mean we have to take it. Especially since mentally torturing a teenager to get a point across is... morally dubious, on its face. There's no shame in admitting we lack the tools to properly help someone and stepping back to focus on damage control, as helping without the proper tools can do more harm than good.

Again, though, that's my perspective, one which comes from someone who can only talk about the vote in hindsight as I wasn't around when the voting was actually happening. So, it should be taken with a lot of salt. I sincerely hope those who didn't Forgive her get what they wanted out of the verdict and that Muu will become a better person because of it in some way, even if I have my doubts about it. What's done is done, we should just hope for the best now.

-The Amane vote was a lot harder, because neither option came with a guarantee of safety, and neither option came with a guarantee of death. The setup was always there for a Forgiven Amane to kill Shidou (which is what I assume happened), but there was also setup for someone like Kazui saving him. It was entirely possible that Shidou could have survived with injuries, and just because it didn't happen, we shouldn't forget that it seemed like a real possibility at the time.

That isn't to say I blame Kazui or even Shidou or anyone else for what happened. Trusting a child isn't a crime, and people shouldn't have to be babysitting Shidou the whole time. The fault is entirely on the people who raised Amane, the audience who allowed her freedom of movement, and Amane herself.

In the same vein, an Unforgiven vote could have carried no inter-prisoner fatalities, but it would have been Amane's second Unforgiven, meaning there was a real possibility she'd die. We don't know how that works, after all. I don't even find it particularly likely, but it's a real concern that I took into account.

Basically, unlike Muu's vote where one option was clearly safer than the other (in my eyes), Amane's vote was a gamble either way, and we had no way to genuinely tell what the odds of Shidou's death (and Mahiru's, as we believed back then that they were linked) on a Forgiven vote were compared to the odds of an Amane death on Unforgiven.

Which is why I don't regret voting Amane Forgiven. We can speculate on what we'd do with the information we have now and the information we may get later, but with the information we had at the time, I find it a perfectly reasonable decision. If the information we'd had was different, and you could guarantee that no one would die to an Unforgiven vote and that Shidou would absolutely die on a Forgiven, I might have ended up voting Amane Unforgiven. It would have hurt me a lot and I'd feel gross doing it, but I stand by the principle that preserving human life is always the priority.

However, such a guarantee didn't exist. So I had to weigh the possibility of life and death against the other aspects of the vote. And to put it bluntly, I've never personally found any Unforgiven argument unrelated to Shidou's safety to be particularly convincing. We've seen what an Unforgiven vote does for Amane, and it's not good. I sincerely doubt that doing the same thing again would carry different results.

Also, there's another reason I found voting Amane Forgiven when Shidou could die easier to justify than Not Forgiving Muu when that could get Haruka killed: it's just easier to sell me on a Forgiven vote than an Unforgiven vote. That's a personal bias I'm aware of, but not one I particularly mind having and acting upon. Hot take, mentally torturing teenagers is Bad actually, and should be avoided whenever possible.

-I didn't talk about Mahiru much in the previous section, because I'm pretty sure she was dead from T1.

[2024/12/15 Timeline] Mahiru: I also have to, say my thanks, to Shidou-san. Kotoko: I can’t even laugh at how carefree you are, going out of your way to call me over. Well...... if you have any grudges in your last moments, I guess I’d consider listening.

In this recent timeline,, Mahiru talks about Shidou as if he's still alive, but Kotoko seems pretty convinced Mahiru's not going to last much longer. This seems to imply, at least to me, that Shidou wouldn't have been able to keep Mahiru alive for T3 even if he hadn't gotten stabbed by the child. She was likely just kept alive to explore her character further before killing her off.

Now, I don't hold any votes cast against anyone in general, but I especially don't hold anything against the votes from T1. From my understanding, that was the wild wild west when it came to voting, as there was no precedent for what the votes would actually do. I don't even know what I would have voted Mahiru, since by the time I joined the fandom, the consequences of the voting had already been made relatively clear. I have no basis for what I would have taken into account when it came to casting votes in T1.

That said, I would have voted Kotoko Forgiven, probably. I tend to trust fictional characters more than I probably should, and the partnership she offered in TASK sounded quite appealing when we had no precedent for inter-prisoner violence beyond John Doe. HARROW made it look (at least to me) that Kotoko did a lot of research before attacking her victims, so I'd have given her the benefit of the doubt and thought she wouldn't attack the others until she learnt more about their crimes. Without Deep Cover, there wasn't any reason to believe she had that info at the time. Clearly, I'd have enabled the bullshit that happened in the T1-T2 intermission. Oops.

Okay that's way too much yapping about things that no longer matter. The votes are cast, the decisions are made, we move. What's next?

Well, that would be discussing how these deaths affect our choices moving forward. I don't feel like speculating on how characters are going to act in T3 when it's likely we're gonna get more info on that soon anyways (I can't believe it!!!), but what are my plans for voting?

Well, you can probably guess, but I'm hoping for an inno sweep. Unless we get confirmation on what our votes are gonna do before casting them, the possibility that a T3 Unforgiven will kill the character is too dangerous for me to consider that, unless there's some reason to believe a Forgiven vote would also carry risk of death. I think I've made it clear that I don't usually find the mental torture that an Unforgiven vote carries to be particularly helpful, so unless the consequences of the vote change, full Forgiven is probably the best we can hope for. I really doubt it's going to be so simple, of course, but I can't comment further without more info on the trial. I'm very excited to see how they try to avoid the full Forgiven sweep over at MILGRAM HQ (?).

And I'll actually get to vote for all of them this time! Well, the ones who are alive, anyways. Yippie!!!

On a completely unrelated note; really love the title of the video. The play on "your call" (your decision) and "your curtain call" (the end) is fun.

I wonder what other routes would have been called, though. Because obviously you can't have a name for every possible combination of T1 and T2 verdicts, so you need general names like Your (Curtain) Call for most of them. I kinda wanna know what decisions could have led to a different route name. If I feel like it, I might make a post with some other route ideas for the fun of it. But I have like a bajillion posts I want to write on my main still, so. God knows when that would come out.

Alright I've evidently run out of meaningful things to say. Hope you enjoyed this massive rambling session, that you don't hate me if you disagree with my opinions, all that stuff. In any case, thanks for reading, see ya'!

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prid3fulsinner

7 months ago