Slowly Realizing That I Was Taught Twice As Much About The Bubonic Plague Than I Was About The Shoah.

الليلة الأولى من رمضان و بلشت اشتباكات في الضفة الغربية و هاي ‏المرة الثالثة الليلة اقتحم الاحتلال مخيم بلاطة في نابلس .

الليل طويل

Work In Progress

Rapunzel design for Rise of the Brave Tangled Dragons. From "Watching the Big Four" by Camkablam on Fanfiction.net

Key terms necessary for understanding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict : Part 1- Ancient Israel to the founding of modern Israel, Jewish terms

A/N: Hey! The results are in, and this is the topic my followers chose🫶 Writing this felt very much like retaking my high school history finals lol. Enjoy reading.

*These terms and definitions will be organized by topics, in chronological order. **If I have made a mistake or if you feel like I forgot something important- don’t hesitate to tell me in the comments. It is very hard to summarize thousands of years. *** Be respectful, I am human.

1. Key terms in Judaism and the connection to the land of Israel :

Israel and Judea- Were the two ancient Jewish kingdoms.

Zion ציון- Is one of the 70 biblical names for the city of Jerusalem. In fact, Jerusalem is referenced by this name in the bible over 150 times.

The word Zion is very much embedded into our culture: it is used in many prayers and Jewish texts written throughout Jewish history, songs etc.

Zion and the exile from it:

It is especially used when describing longing and the wanting of return to the land of Israel:

The most famous example that uses the word Zion is the biblical prayer from the book of Psalms, 137:

1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.

תהילים פרק קלז א עַל נַהֲרוֹת, בָּבֶל--שָׁם יָשַׁבְנוּ, גַּם-בָּכִינוּ: בְּזָכְרֵנוּ, אֶת-צִיּוֹן.

This verse is an example of the longing for Israel: as it was written after the exile to Babylon.

*Yes, the funky Boney M song is based on this Psalms verse :) Coming full circle- It is also used in the official hymn of the modern state of Israel, Ha'Tikva. התקווה, written by Naftali Herz Imber. This word might sound familiar to you, as it is also the origin of the word "Zionism".

Zionism- is the notion that the Jewish people deserve to have a state of their own.

Semite- is a term for people relating to, or constituting a subfamily of the Afro-Asiatic language family:

Semite languages- are a group of ancient languages, that originated around the same time, in Africa and the Middle East- aka the neighboring countries of Israel.

The Semitic languages are: Hebrew and its other ancient dialects , Arabic, Amharic, Aramaic and more. Unfortunately , most of these are extinct and no longer spoken.

The languages that are still spoken to this very day are : Arabic, Amharic and Hebrew.

Some Hebrew Fun facts :

-While there are only estimated 8 million Hebrew speakers nowadays( most of them Israeli), Hebrew is considered a holy language in is spoken during prayer.

-Ancient Hebrew and modern Hebrew are very similar. So much so that if I were to time travel, I could have a decent conversation with my ancestors😊 (some pronunciations, grammar and words have changed, but it’s essential the same).

-Which cannot be done with Romanic languages or Celtic languages..

Antisemitism A\N: This word is getting its whole section because it simply deserves it. Nowadays, every time a Jewish person says something is antisemitic, they will usually be bombarded with mocking comments about how Jews like to call everything antisemitic. If had a nickel for every time I got those comments or an Arab person tried to troll me in the comment section by saying "I can't be antisemitic if I'm a Semite myself"... Let's make it clear (once again).

As I have explained before, the word Semite refers to a group of ethnicities. However, the word Antisemitic refers to Jewish hatred: "Antisemitism is hostility to, prejudice towards, or discrimination against Jews.[2][3][4] This sentiment is a form of racism,[5][6] and a person who harbors it is called an antisemite. Though antisemitism is overwhelmingly perpetrated by non-Jews, it may occasionally be perpetrated by Jews in a phenomenon known as auto-antisemitism ".

TLDR: Don't be a Jerk and use antisemitic rhetoric, blood libels, and stereotypes... You don't get to choose if something is antisemitic or not, Jews do.

2. Modern Israel and its founding

The Knesset- Is the Israeli parliament consisting of 120 members, elected democratically every 4 years. Usually- there have been 5 elections in the last 5 years. It also currently has 36 ministers. Yes, that _IS_ a lot.

Kibbutz- "Kibbutz is a community where people voluntarily live and work together on a noncompetitive basis. The first kibbutzim were organized by idealistic young Zionists in the beginning of the 20th century."

As time moved on, starting in the 80s, many Kibbutzim struggled financially and closed down. Today, there are 265 Kibbutzim left, with approximately 200,000 residents. Less than 20% of them are communal.

Unfortunately today, the word Kibbutz has a different connotation:

British mandate- Yep, they colonized us too lol. After the first world war, Between 1917 and May 1948 (Israel was founded literally as soon as the mandate ended).

Fun fact- Today, there are still a few rules left from the British mandate In Israel (Most of them were updated or changed by Israeli law makers after it's founding, usually by the Knesset and the Supreme court of justice).

“Homa U’migdal” (חומה ומגדל Tower and stockade)- During the British mandate, Jewish settlements were built overnight due to a legal loophole still valid from the Ottoman rule. The loophole prevented the British from destroying the new settlement: "Homa U'Migdal is the name of an operation that the leaders of the Yishuv initiated in Palestine, during which 52 new settlements were founded. This operation was a response of the Yishuv to the 1936-1939 Arab Revolt and the restrictions the Mandatory authorities placed, both on the building of new Jewish settlements, and on the amount of Jewish immigrants allowed into Palestine. The building of each settlement began at night. First, the guard tower and the defense stockade were set up, so the operation was named “Tower and Stockade”. According to an old Ottoman law that was still valid during the Mandate period, the destroying of a building was not allowed after the roof had been erected. For this reason the British did not destroy the "Tower and Stockade" settlements which had not received building permits. "

The 2-state solution - The notion that the solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict should be two states for two people- one for Arabs and one for Jews.

Balfour's declaration- is the famous letter sent by then-British foreign secretary Lord Balfour to Lord Rothschild in 1917. In the letter, Lord Balfour stated that the British Empire would support the forming of a Jewish Zionist state in the land of Israel.

Peel Commission- was a community created in 1936 by the British rule during their Mandate over Israel. As the name suggests, the head of the Commity was Lord Peel. A suggestion for a Two-state solution was suggested to representatives of both Jews and Arabs. Unfortunately, the Arabs have refused it.

1947 Partition Plan- A partition plan suggested by the UN, that included another draft of the two-state solution, with different borders. The Arabs have refused it once more.

Declaration of Israel's Independence from Britain:

And so, as the British mandate ended on May 14th, 1948, the people's Council (that later served as the initial government of Israel) declared the formation of the modern state of Israel.

The day following the declaration, the Arabs in Israel revolted and with the help of 5 foreign armies that invaded Israel, tried to stop the formation of Israel: Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon.

They failed and Israel was formed.

You can watch David Ben Gurion, head of the council (and Israel's future first prime minister) declare its formation/independence here.

PS- this was the flag of Palestine before the current one:

Sources:

-Semite languages pic: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Semitic-languages

-Kibbutz: * https://kibbutzulpan.org/about_kibbutz/ *https://www.hamichlol.org.il/%D7%A7%D7%99%D7%91%D7%95%D7%A6%D7%99%D7%9D_%D7%91%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%90%D7%9C (Hebrew)

-Homa U'Migdal" : http://www.zionistarchives.org.il/en/Pages/TowerStockade.aspx

I’ll never forget when someone I considered to be a close friend said I was racist for stating that Palestinian children are brainwashed into hating Jews at very young ages.

And, yknow what, I think it’s time I address that because it’s been making my blood boil for that past few months. 

What about Tomorrow’s Pioneers?

What about this puzzle right here?

What about the fact that Hamas uses child soldiers to kill Israelis and Jews?

What about Hamas’s ‘summer camps’?

What about the fact that a large majority of Palestinian adults hold antisemitic values, meaning they are bound to teach those same ideologies to their children?

What about the fact that Hamas openly supports the Nazi Party while also being extremely involved and tyrannical in their civilian’s lives, meaning they very much could have, oh, I don’t know, taught it to their civilians? HELL, KIDS IN PALESTINE AREN’T EVEN TAUGHT ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST IN SCHOOLS.

It’s not ‘racism’, it’s fact. Stop infantilizing Palestinians. 

Condemn Hamas while also acknowledging that their civilians hold many of their ideologies. It’s ok to feel bad for the citizens, but it is not ok to purposely stay in the dark because you don’t like the truth.

My entire life, my mother has taught me about my honor. How I should never let anyone besmirch my name, including myself. One time my mom was accused of doing something inappropriate in work when she had not. 

My mom was upset because her honor had been violated by lies about her character. And I thought my best friend would know me better than that. She lied about my character and who I am as a person.

i’m willing to believe some people are genuinely idiots who don’t know that 90%+ of polish jews were killed in the holocaust (and made up half of all poles killed in wwii), but. it’s almost like this shit helps nothing and no one

yadvashem.org

Anti-Jewish Violence in Poland After Liberation

Anti-Jewish Violence in Poland After Liberation

I've been thinking about this for a couple of days now. It's a good question, but it has a lot of answers because its actually pretty complex. Mind you, a lot of this will be based on my own observations and experiences-I myself never went to college but instead spent 4 years of my life in the USAF. I will link to things that better explain the science to it, but generally speaking, its observations and personal experience and US/Western history. And I may not touch on it all because there is a LOT! Also, I do criticize aspects of Christianity though, this doesn't mean I hate Christianity or anything like that. Rather, I'm pointing out the flaws of it-there have absolutely been positive aspects to Christianity!

And, as a disclaimer-supporting Palestine isn't the issue. Palestine deserves its own state and with the rights of its citizens respected-or however the people there, Palestinian and Israeli, decide on how those 2 states will be, such as 2 state confederation, etc. They're the ones that ultimately decide, I'm just here to make sure everyone has their human rights respected. Its easier to say 2 state solution to get the idea across that I want both to exist and that I support however they set up their state(s).

No, rather, the issue is the means of which the younger generation (and that of my own, as we're the next age bracket up) claim helps support Palestine. And truthfully, its a mess of how/why we came to this place.

Christianity doesn't exactly allow for questioning nowadays-it wasn't always like this for the religion, but absolutely became so over time. And its gone in cycles as well. You get the severe hand of the Catholic Church for much of the Middle Ages or Protestant Church (like Puritans!) at times, reformations, then First Great Awakening to be followed by the Enlightenment (and for the record, many of the Founders of the US practiced a very different type of Christianity that would make Evangelicals scream). Then came the Second Great Awakening as a response to the Enlightenment, then the Third Great Awakening and Fourth Great Awakening (which may or may not actually count, but still had a lot of changes)...and well, US culture is a mix of Enlightenment, First, Second, Third and Fourth Great Awakenings along with bits from before that, with varying degrees of influence depending on the time period. Right now, we're dealing with the shit from the Fourth Great Awakening-like the rise of the Religious Right and apocalypse BS. You do still see pieces of prior awakenings, such as more social justice oriented churches and churches that look to be more universalist, but they're being drowned out by those of the Fourth Great Awakenings. Enlightenment still hangs on, but the Fourth is absolutely trying to destroy it as it consumes and destroys what's left of prior Awakenings.

So as you can see, Christianity does go through cycles of questioning but ends up defaulting back to being unquestioned. Which is a problem, on top of the antisemitism that's been a part of it for a . Enlightenment, while far from perfect, allowed questioning and tolerance for others as well as separation of Church and State.

But we're losing that as the Right gains ground and the Left gets more extreme to counter it (or not).

And because the 'don't question it' aspect is partly due to Christian thought, where your Priest/Pastor/ Reverend/etc is supposed to be the one who speaks for God's Word. They are supposed to know the ins and out, so what they say *must* be true and as servants of the Lord, they *must* be infallible or far closer to it then the rest of us sinners.

This unquestioning attitude on leaders leads into sin as its also reduced into a binary. You either are or are not. Once a sinner, always a sinner. You can never be cleansed of it. This absolutely has warped the social justice sphere in horrific ways. Purity tests, a hierarchy on who matters most and should get all the attention on, and more. If not a sinner, you are innocent and deserve nothing terrible. But if you are, well...

Ever wonder why there's such a rush to prove someone is a sinner when something terrible happens to that person instead of realizing that 'hey, that doesn't matter, what was done to them was awful?' Its easier to do that and preserve the power structure and people in control of it. My next point is as follows-people don't generally think of 'oh yeah I'm going to be evil'. Rather, they see themselves, their community, etc as good and thus what is done to sinners must be deserved. Its how terrible people that can woo a crowd have such voracious defenders. They confirm and say the right things-to whatever is considered right to that community and seem to do so without caring on the opinions of others-though truthfully when challenged, they do not handle it well. Unfortunately, too many consider that a hallmark of leadership, when leadership itself is complex. It is not the loudest asshole in the room that seems to say the right things.

Am I talking the Right? Or the Left? It applies to both actually, because its all shared overall cultural values. Someone could be the most anti Christian, pro human rights campaigner but still engage in this thinking. They didn't do the work of truly figuring out the more problematic aspects they learned; they just figured if they left Christianity and/or opposed it that they were good, forgetting that it affects damn near everything in the overall culture in many different ways. Or they were on the right, came to oppose it but still engage in mannerisms from there, because they didn't do the work of really deconstructing it.

Some of this, I see in my own age group. They will point out to how the US acted after 9/11 to argue on how badly the US acted and how Israel is acting right now. But they will forget on how social media has been deliberately fucked with-the Great Russian Interference on tumblr back for the 2016 election was an example-but far from the only example. It was chilling seeing how well they researched how to 'speak' to the groups they were looking to sway with propaganda. And that is repeating, right now. On this site and elsewhere, with the desired effects of antisemitism and Islamophobia being on the rise. And too many are not questioning it-not thinking 'why is this a random tweet and/or why is this written to deliberately make me mad?'

Several things have stuck with me from my time in the Air Force. One of which is this-brainwashing, as its is commonly known, doesn't exist. Rather, its because you accept it-most cases aren't from accepting it due to threats/acts of violence, but by simply not questioning your own bias over time.

Honestly, its pretty terrifying to know that you will never be immune to propaganda. Its hard to be aware of so much being thrown at you. Unfortunately, depending on where you lived, you may have received schooling on media literacy. I say unfortunately because it should be universally taught, but isn't. The cracks in the school system continue to worsen-I was made aware of recently that even in NYC, a progressive stronghold, the Holocaust isn't taught much and plenty of states don't mandate teaching about the Holocaust (a little over half don't but also read the survey article, it is interesting on that states that do teach end up with more people that deny it compared to states without mandatory teaching. ). This contrasts my own education from back in the early to mid 2000s, where we read the Diary of Anne Frank and Night, saw Schindler's List and pictures and discussions on what happened in the Holocaust.

I have a theory as to why it is strangely higher in states that teach it. We know that American history is unfortunately lacking at times and propaganda at others. What I suspect is those people who are very young and not exactly in the position to really think further on it, are confronted with 'hey this was also an important historical event and the US gov't fucked up' they immediately start disregarding anything that's true because one lie means all are lies. Add to that teens, due to brain development at the time, have very black and white thinking and its not helped by overall society Part of this is due to Christian thinking, but also due to factors of poor education, poverty and a general need for things to be simple because of the mental energy involved. One of the articles talks about climate change denial, but it can be extrapolated to other areas.

Now, I bring up brain development but its complex. Yes, the brain isn't completely developed until around age 25 (varies from person to person), however, a person doesn't magically become less impulsive, or more empathic and so on. You still need to have those traits nurtured and practiced prior. Unfortunately, this too has fallen into the binary thinking-where you have people truly saying anyone under 25 is 'literally a child' instead of examining the various stages of brain development and comparing/contrasting with age groups and more.

Now, let's talk about something else. The race for a spot in college and the absolute insanity teens must go through, not just to place a spot with testing, but also place in scholarships, loans, etc. Ever think about the origins of why students need extracurriculars? Its due to antisemitism-to keep Jewish students out. Its also why legacy admissions became a thing as it serves to keep the well to do in the student body. While Affirmative Action has helped some minorities and/or poor people into college, the threshold remains high due to well, extracurriculars cost money. and testing has its own problems. And some students may have to work part time to help their families, taking away from even having the option of it. That's also not accounting for racist/sexist/etc exclusion in certain extracurriculars that's slowly being corrected.

Add into that many take AP courses-which can be harder than the actual college course. You have to pay an amount as well to take the course/test, just for a shot at having completed it. While 3 and above is considered good, its up to the colleges on if they are willing to accept it in full or partial...or even at all.

Continuing on with the black and white thinking, I was often told to either go to college or flip burgers, with the burger flipping seen as a terrible thing. Obviously, I can point out how utterly classist that was now, but hearing that growing up that the only way to make something of yourself was to go to college? That can fuck with someone. I had friends that didn't have lunch because they were too busy with multiple AP classes and then would try to sneak a snack during their extracurriculars. I did take some AP classes, some I was great at and some I was very much not but I absolutely refused to do as they did.

Simply put, there is too much pressure on teens to get into college while colleges do the bare minimum to make themselves more accommodating. This means a lot of new young adults haven't spent their teen years finding out who exactly they want to be or having been taught critical thinking skills because that was given up to memorize facts for the many tests taken. Add to that many are just so damned tired trying to keep up and they also don't have the energy to try and work on those skills either. So we're working with at least two generations of grinders trying to get a spot for a better future, but losing out on critical aspects needed to prepare them to be emotionally stable adults while that spot continues to end up further and further from them as the debt piles up.

This makes them easy prey to fall into extremist thinking. I remember being full of a lot of passion at that age, to the point of feeling extremely deeply. I still feel deeply on things, but I've also settled down as I've gotten into being an adult and gaining experience as I age. Part of it is trying to carve out what is 'you' and what you believe in/stand for and trying to understand the new responsibilities gained as a new adult. And freaking out at the sudden lack of structure of college life compared to the highly structured school life.

Now let's add into social media and how there's algorithms in place to push you towards for extreme thoughts. This extreme thoughts can be from within the nation or outside. Combine that with the young adults not having critical thinking skills needed to properly engage with social media, the need to feel like one is doing the right thing and being on the 'right side of history', Christian thought and black and white thinking seeping in, and its a huge set up of deliberate, not deliberate and in between actions taken up to this point by various institutions that have led a good chunk of Gen Z and some Millennials to this point.

There is inexperience involved for sure, many of Gen Z were born after 9/11. However, its absolutely not solely due to that-there are so many factors at play here, along with just the general inexperience young adults have that are being taken advantage of. And, like I've mentioned, some in my own age group have also fallen into the trap. Their inexperience isn't so much due to age, its more due to general history. There's also an aspect of learned helplessness here for both groups due to the sheer number of BS with wars, the economy, pandemic, climate and how everything seems to just get worse.

Nontraditional news isn't completely bad I want to say as well; however there is a lot of it that absolutely is. Nontraditional news isn't held to the same standards as the traditional news is. Anyone can make a podcast, spout off absolute BS and have it take off because there's not much in the way of an integrity check. There's a damn good reason why there's the saying of 'a lie has already traveled around the world while the truth is still tying its shoe laces.' (Old) Conspiracy theories spread, the rise of AI related things has aided those in spreading fake news and divisions only get deeper. The rise of needing to be seen and heard because they're not being seen and heard in real life is also a factor, and explains why a lot of the activism ends up slacktivism and gets twisted into 'look how morally right I am being!' at the expense of the groups supposedly being championed. Social media being ubiquitous and damn near required for social networking doesn't help either as it promotes falling further into a hole by those that lack experience on how to navigate it.

Add into the Cultural Christian ideas of rally around a leader that spouts off the correct words and seems to be doing the right things to the point the leader replaces the ideals and warps them, the need for an apocashitstorm for there to be a 'truly perfect utopia' to come about at great cost to everyone but the people longing for it and the inability to admit wrongs for fear of losing the 'innocence' they had and instead becoming whatever the buzzword for bad person is. Its pretty dangerous. Its how you get people assuming the worst of you but at the same time wanting to do exactly what they think you do-for their noble causes of course.

Add also into the ever present antisemitism that goes unchallenged throughout all levels (and for far far longer than the US was the US) and general regret of US History (and promotion of said historical issues at expense of other areas with their own histories around the world!) on top of all that is how you get the extreme 'Hamas did nothing wrong! Those Israeli women, men and children deserved their rapes because they're settler colonizers!' Empathy is only for the innocent.

Its very easy to be empathic for the innocent, just like its easy to be a saint in paradise. But for those that aren't? Well that's asking too much, too much thinking about what your values actually mean and if you're truly living up to them. Nuance is a rare thing, a despised thing-unless it can be used to keep the 'innocent' innocent as they are deemed to never be allowed fault. Its how you get people praising Hamas and thinking they are liberators as well as claiming that what Hamas did wasn't actually what they did. Even if before they were saying those Israelis deserved it. ANYTHING to keep their group they claim to champion 'innocent/pure' and because they lack the ability to distinguish Hamas from Palestinian citizens and the Likud run Israeli gov't from the Israeli citizens, it reenforces this.

The point isn't justice at all; its people that want to be able to freely hate a group and feel justified in doing so and act out what violence they would like to do to their own enemies. Do they care about Hamas and their oppression of Palestinians? No, they don't and even fight back against factual accounts of Hamas oppressing Palestinians. There's also an extremely racist (and for Muslims, Islamophobic) fantasy at play-oh those people we don't consider white, they're going to butcher people, they can't help it, they're oppressed! Palestinians are a people, not a terror group like Hamas. Do some join with Hamas to commit horrific acts of violence against Israelis? Sure, just like some Israelis use their time in the IDF to cause as much harm to Palestinians. Doesn't mean all Palestinians or all Israelis are of one mind-rather, like any people that exists, there will be a lot of differences in opinion.

They hate Jewish and/or Israeli people far far more than any love they claim to have for Palestinians-if they even had any true positive feelings towards them to begin with. Everything I mentioned above (and I'm sure I missed some stuff!) is why the youngest age group as well as many in my own claim to support Palestine while not actually doing so.

Speaking of-here's charities that are working to end this war and have solutions to hopefully make a better future for Israelis and Palestinians.

Does "narcissist abuse" exist?

Well, I'll try to think of this as unbiased as possible.

Narcissist and Abuser are not synonymous. Many narcissists make an effort to not harm others and have never been or are currently not abusers.

NPD is a disorder with different presentations and sufferers have differents traits and severities: some narcissists are aggressive and external; some are more internal; some may be concerned with being a good person; some may overcompensate for their narcissism; some may take out the issues of their disorder on others; some may have trouble self-reflecting and hurt others; some may never hurt anyone; some may know how to deal with their traits while others may not.

NPD is a disorder that impacts both the sufferer and the people around them. It is important to talk about the sufferer, but also to acknowledge that it affects others as well. Especially if someone is untreated and unaware of their disorder.

It can cause someone to hurt others if it is left unchecked, if they were taught to hurt others, if they are unaware of their behavior, if they lack self-control, or if they simply have no desire to be a good person.

An abuser with NPD's reasons and ways of abusing someone may be different, just as an abuser with autism's would...and an abuser with depression, an abuser with bipolar, an abuser with schizophrenia, or an abuser who is not mentally ill at all.

I have heard a story about a woman with schizophrenia who was convinced her children were possessed by the devil and tried to attack them. Does this mean everyone with schizophrenia is dangerous? No. Absolutely not. Did her disorder affect the way she treated others in a negative way? Yes, because it presented in this way, and she was completely unaware and untreated. She is a victim in the fact she was dealing with these delusions and this fear, just as her children were victims for having to deal with the way she acted. Again: someone being schizophrenic does not mean they will hurt you. If someone who is schizophrenic tries to hurt you, that isn't representative of everyone with schizophrenia. (Many people with schizophrenia do not try to harm people at all.)

I also heard about the difficulties of a child living with bipolar mother who treated her disorder with alcohol, causing her to accidentally harm her child in many ways. Obviously, her disorder and addiction are relevant in talking about the experience, but we all know people with bipolar disorder are not abusers just because they are bipolar; and addicts are not abusers just because they are addicts.

Abuse can be done on accident, especially if someone was raised around it or thinking it was okay, or if they have a disorder affecting how they see things. In some cases, explaining and trying to help people realize their behavior can work. In others, it won't; some people don't want to listen or get better. If thats the case, thats on them. But no matter what, abuse is a choice. It can be done without awareness; but it is still a choice.

Anyone can be an abuser, and the equation of one disorder with abuse is not only dehumanizing to the people with this disorder, but can actually hurt victims of abusers who aren't narcissists, or victims who are narcissists.

My point is that it can be relevant to say your abuser had NPD. But someone being an abuser doesn't mean they are a narcissist, and the NPD isn't what needs highlighted...its the abuse. Yes, you can say your abuser had NPD, I don't think it's wrong to make a space to discuss this with people who had a similar experience either.

Many people in my family are narcissists/narcissistic, and quite a few of them hurt people or have been abusive. So I won't deny that a lot of narcissists (especially ones who externalize their narcissism and who are completely untreated, also when they refuse to admit they have a problem) treat others badly. I also know some of them don't actually have bad intentions and that others do have (in a way) bad intentions. Some were raised to think it was okay. I also know of narcissists who internalize it, who are aware of their narcissism, who do their best to not hurt others, who are victims themselves.

NPD should be talked about from the perspective of people with NPD, but this doesn't mean people who dealt with abusive people with NPD can't talk about it. As I said, I had no problem with an article about an abusive mother who had bipolar disorder; it was relevant.

A lot of "narcissistic abuse" described is just abuse. A list of abusive behaviors doesn't need to say narcissist at the top. It is completely irrelevant. Say it if it is relevant.

---

TLDR; Your abuser being a narcissist can be relevant, and you can talk about it, narcissists can be abusers and their disorder can play a part in it. But not all narcissists are abusers, and "narcissist" is equated with abuser. This is why people do not like the term "narcissistic abuse." It, in a way, equates narcissism with abuse. "Narcissistic abuse" is as real as "autistic abuse" or "bipolar abuse."

Don't use narcissist as a word for abuser. Say it if it's relevant.

I have no problem with a subreddit, therapy group, or community for people who dealt with abusive narcissists, but I want people to not perpetuate a stigma.

I sympathize with those who were abused, but narcissism isn't abuse; abuse is abuse. Narcissism can play a part, but that is not what the abuse is, and that is not THE cause of the abuse.

Abuse is abuse, and anyone can abuse.