Something Buried Years Ago Lies Burning Still Beneath The Snow.

does RAMCOA always involve sexual abuse by default? We relate to some experiences of RAMCOA survivors but we don't feel sexual abuse was exactly the main focus of the abuse, in fact the sexual abuse we experienced was actually completely unrelated as far as we're away. feel free not to answer if you're not comfortable, we just can't seem to find a clear answer to this question anywhere.

100% No. CSA and SA are often a part of RAMCOA- a lot of people do experience it if they experience RAMCOA- however not a single one of the 3 types of abuse that it covers requires CSA/SA. We had this confusion ourselves for a while at first because we had no memory of CSA whatsoever- sadly we learned we were wrong on that front but even before we had learned we still were a RAMCOA survivor even without it. Hope this helps.

Ello Ello, we are the Mountain cap collective, and this is our resource and talking about our system profile .

I’m not gonna go over all the  diagnosis because they are too numerous, but we will list some of the more important ones C-DID, ASD, ADHD, CPTSD,H-EDS, POTS, dyslexia and dyspraxia .

We are a RAMCOA survivor, we are not planning to talk in detail about it, but will plan to share basic information about RAMCOA and the basis of what we experienced . We are leftist, this is a safe space for all. This is not a page about blood liable and conspiracy, if you support that kind of shit, please leave the front door is wide open. We also don’t support narcissistic abuse (it’s called emotional or psychological abuse), we have low empathy ourselves because of the abuse we suffered&ASD, sooo Yeet!

Anyways, a quick get to know us!



Miloslav

They/Them

Host

🐱.

Ivan

He/Him

🌻.

Wolfy

He/They

🗡️🐈.

Lou

He/Him

⚜️.

Louis

He/They

🏞️.

Jippi

Any/All

🐈.

Honestly, that’s everybody who fronts enough so yeah!

Do you have sources for any of the things you've been talking about lately (the different programming types, hc-did, basically all of it)? I'd really like to do some more reading on this stuff but I've found a grand total of One book and most of the rest of the stuff is social media posts with no references, or references to other social media posts :(

Our top three “sources” are usually our system, late night conversations with irl friends, and social media.

The biggest issue isn’t actually a lack of resources, but a lack of good resources. Survivors put out material before they realize they got something wrong. The clinicians that work with us are the same, and the first generation of papers were shots in the dark and fear of lies that hadn’t been exposed yet.

There’ll be a lot about a big, networked Cult, usually either the Illuminati or Luciferians. Plenty of government conspiracy theories, references to projects that sometimes do get evidence. Then there’s the regular racism and Christian lens.

If you’re looking for overviews and definitions, they got taken down here are some good websites:

https://www.ra-free.org/complexities-of-identifying-ritual-abuse - not a lot of information, lists studies and professionals

https://endritualabuse.org/full-article-index/ - lots of good articles, some really helpful, others had me cocking my head

https://www.cherylrainfield.com/articles-cult-abuse/ - more about the author than the issue, some useful links on that page

There used to be more. Two others, one about spin programming and one about colors, are still up, but a little out there. You’ll know if you see them

Some books with more details. Not good books, just books:

https://ia803208.us.archive.org/34/items/BecomingYourself.Miller/BecomingYourself.Miller.pdf - the single best thing I’ve found and I still have complaints, this version is unformatted but free

https://ia803400.us.archive.org/28/items/chainless-slaves-annotated/Chainless%20Slaves%20-%20Annotated.pdf - I didn’t like it, lots of certain language for iffy concepts, has a list of programs and alter roles

https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=89e823aedc9c69ffd8d715757c86878af27c37c9 - not a fan, also lots of funky ideas and hate-based rhetoric, has lists of programs and cues

There are lots of survivor autobiographies and outsider opinions, but I don’t have free links to those

Keep in mind that getting out of a high control group sucks ass, and most accounts (even if they claim to have healed) have the remnants of the abusive ideologies.

I still prefer hearing from other survivors what happened, and I find it easier to validate people I can easily contact. I’ll keep the webpage if I find anything I can’t just Google, but this is what I can pull right now.

It’s not great, buddy, but it’s something.

clones and splitting -nightmare (but pink helped at the end)

im tired of ppl misusing these terms so:

codependent does not mean two people who have a strong attachment and are very clingy towards one another

codependent means a specific type of unhealthy relationship where one person engages in unhealthy/self-destructive behaviours and the other person becomes their caretaker whilst enabling them, out of a need to feel needed

trauma bonding does not mean two people find common ground because they've both been through similar traumatic events and grow close because they understand each other's experiences

trauma bonding means bonding to your abuser as a survival strategy or due to manipulation. (similar to the concept of stockholm syndrome)

do you have any advice for trying to figure out if im a RAMCOA survivor or if im experiencing delusions? there are some alters in my system fully believe we are a RAMCOA victim and claim to have memories to support this, but the rest of us think that we are just experiencing delusions and that these memories are incorrect or exaggerated.

I want to preface this by saying most of our delusions come from excessive paranoia in our OCD. Fear we have done something, will do something, are evil, and will do more evil, all when fully unreasonable to think and not comporting with reality. However we are not by any means a fully reliable source for this. Ultimately differentiating repressed memories and delusions should be done by a professional who is knowledgeable in both fields.

First of all, do you have a history of delusions or any type of delusion-prone mental health condition in your family? If not it is more likely it is an actual memory than a delusion. If you don't have a disorder that makes you delusional/delusion-prone or easy to be convinced of false things, it is more of a possibility than it would be otherwise. Do you have an anxiety disorder that can allow for delusional paranoia? That can sometimes happen.

Second, why do you think it's a delusion. What genuinely makes you feel it is one? If you can find a reason that reason may lead to more of an answer. Sometimes you can figure out that you think its a delusion because it has no basis in reality or doesn't properly fit into whatever gaps you do have or it doesn't seem to make sense in your specific case.

Another thing to note- a lot of the time RAMCOA survivors who are systems will have an entire grouping of alters who had little to no awareness of the RAMCOA whatsoever. I myself writing this now (Dorian), am not an alter who has any connection to that trauma. I find it strange and odd- the only reason me and others in my grouping have accepted enough of it is due to articles and exposes and literally drama board blogs around the cult we grew up in, as well as more things to do with excessive gang activity in the area. I also have had to realize my role itself spawned from RAMCOA but was so niche and specific that it didn't need to have me be aware of why it was going on. (Most likely I am made out of fused fragments which is why I'm a fully fleshed out alter today with no awareness of what my main role has been for- or perhaps my role was able to cover other things happening organically enough that it was more common).

One other way we differentiate delusions and genuine memory for ourselves is that... if the memory explains something like an entire OCD theme, a grouping of behavior, nightmares, and specific issues that could reasonably be tied to the specific memory, we tend to be pretty sure it is genuinely a memory. Most recently these have also only come up via flashbacks that have made alters become incredibly self-destructive and distressed to a degree that has only ever happened with uncovering of horrific trauma memories before.

Again we cannot tell you anything that will be 100% accurate. This is something that is incredibly personal and should be talked over with a professional. Additionally be careful because there are some bad professionals who think ALL ramcoa is delusion because they reject the reality of of ramcoa existence blatantly. Make sure it is someone who is properly trauma informed just as much as you need them to be informed on delusions and delusional disorders to make sure they don't just fully ignore that either.

Alter Roles

Host -  Co-Host can also fit into this definition. These alters handle day to day life for the most part by fronting the most. These alters can also grow up being completely unaware to the system growing up. This however, doesn’t apply to every host but can due to the foremost fronting.

ANP - Short for apparently normal part. Almost if not all systems will have an apparently normal part. These are grounded and rational individual alters.

Protector - These alters handle protecting the system. Mostly from trauma but other situations can and do apply. 

Trauma Holder - Alters who hold onto trauma are labeled as such. They handle often the memory of the trauma or emotions that come with dealing with said trauma mentioned.

Caregiver - This term is most popular with systems that have 1 littles. They are in charge of taking care of the littles and their needs. They also commonly help others in the system, especially the body.

Gatekeeper - Gatekeepers are in charge of managing switches, triggers. Another common thing gatekeepers control and or help take care of can include access to memories.

Helper -  Those who assist in the helping managing the system. Similar to gatekeeper.

Introjects - Alters who split off and resemble a fictional character and or often times real people as well.

Middles - Child alters. Except, this can fall under only 12-17. Age range may vary from system but it used to describe tween to teenage alters rather than tiny children. 1 Littles - Like Middles, Littles are a term to describe child alters. This however only includes babies, toddlers, and kids. E.G. 1-11 year olds. Again, age range may vary by system and doesn’t apply to everyone but that’s the typical standard.

Persecutor - An alter that typically harm the body. This can be siding with an abuser, negative. These alters can also commonly be introjects of an abuser. They typically have protective or protective induced logical behind their actions. They not to be demonized and are fully capable of healing, their actions however are not to be blatantly excused. Non-human Alters - These alters are - as self explainable - non-human. They can present as an animal, religious figure such as an angel or demon, or even a ghost or spirit. They are however not limited to these.

Sexual Alters - Alters that are formed to handle sexual abuse, trauma, so on. Do not guess their toleration to sexual acts because it varies between systems and alters. Just because they split off to handle sexual trauma does not mean they are comfortable with it.

Something I've noticed is how some CDD systems (and general trauma survivors) sometimes treat "extreme" trauma like a fictional concept when trying to valid themselves. I understand where "you don't need to go through RAMCOA abuse/a war/a dictatorship/etc to be a system and have cptsd" comes from and I fully agree with it. Some shitty ableist singlets can be very annoying with how they only accept trauma when it's "extreme" trauma. But I think the way some people talk about it sometimes just makes it sound off. I don't know it's just the way some people phrase it like "Not everyone traumatised is living in a war zone 🙄" makes me really uncomfortable. Like it's not the faults of people who have gone through "extreme" trauma that some people are ableist and uneducated

Also, people who go through those do exist? Like idk most people I see talk about it like it's some far-off vague fictional out-there concept and not like, a thing that real people experience and go through? Like RAMCOA abuse is real and valid (I'm not a survivor myself so I won't talk about it a lot but I felt the need to bring it up because the way some people talk about it is just weird), people who have lived through wars exist? and their trauma is valid, people who have been trafficked exist and their trauma is valid, people who have been tortured exist and their trauma is valid, people who have survived genocides exist and their trauma is valid, and people who have been in cults exist and their trauma is valid. In general, people with "extreme" trauma exist and their trauma is real

Survivors of "extreme" abuse/trauma shouldn't be made to feel like their trauma is too taboo to mention. Or feel like they can't talk about it out of fear of "invalidating other systems". All trauma is valid (including "non extreme" trauma). I think validating traumatic things that aren't usually viewed as trauma by the average person is good but please try not to bring down anyone else in the process

Are you enabling people in your life?

Do you find yourself... * Lying or covering for other people? * Making excuses for someone else's crappy behavior? * Blaming yourself for someone else's crappy behavior, shortcomings, mistakes, etc.? * Swooping in and redoing tasks you've asked someone else to do, that you feel aren't getting done the "right" way? * Helping people who didn't ask for your help, or who said no when you asked if you could help them? * Giving people advice they didn't ask for or seek out? * Feeling resentful when you take on all these responsibilities for other people, even though no one forced you to? * Feeling used or taken advantage of? * Projecting your feelings onto other people? (i.e. When your partner's leaving dirty socks on the floor is no longer about dirty socks, but them not caring about you) * Feeling like you're being taken for granted or that your hard work is not being appreciated? * Feeling drained and exhausted, because you're taking on your own responsibilities plus everyone else's, and you're not taking care of your own needs? * Nagging or micromanaging? * Doing things for people that they are capable of doing for themselves, and should be doing for themselves? * Trying to manage other people's feelings or moods? * Always going along to get along? * Feeling like you're spread too thin? * Not having time and energy to do the things you want and need to do, because you're too busy taking care of everyone else? * Letting your needs fall by the wayside? * Feeling like others are not "pulling their weight?" * Feeling like you're doing more work than other people in your life? * "Checking in" a little too frequently when you delegate a task to someone else? * Always in a state of stress, chaos, and worry? * Worrying about how or whether they'd survive without you? * In an intimate relationship, feeling less like their partner and more like their parent? * Spending money you don't have or can't afford to spend on "helping" the people in your life? * Always getting sucked into drama you don't need to be involved in? * Giving out ultimatums? * Attempting to set a boundary, but then caving? * Doing things out of a sense of guilt or obligation? * Treating people less as people, but as fix-it projects? * Thriving on being the rescuer, the fixer, the go-to person, etc.? * Deriving a sense of self-worth and identity from such? * Feeling like a doormat that people wipe their dirty feet on? * Feeling responsible for other people's choices, feelings, words, and behavior? * Expecting people to read your mind, then getting upset when it turns out they can't? * Feeling like you're giving and giving and giving, and they're taking and taking and taking, and not giving you anything in return? * Trying to change other people's behavior? * Getting into one toxic relationship after another? * Feeling like you're a magnet for toxic people? * Feeling like you're losing yourself, or aren't being true to yourself? * Wearing too many hats? * Resenting the people in your life? * Not having an answer to the question, "Who are you outside of your role as _______?" * Constantly worrying about what other people will think? * Saying "yes" when you really want to say "no?"

Unless you’re uncomfortable with them having number names continue let them using their number name. It’s not disrespectful and they’re not exclusive. It’s not like a close practice. How many singlets do you know with the name zero, I know, at least three. Unlike close practises number names are just something that happens. There’s lots of reasons for them to exist, yes RAMCOA is one but there is many more. Our Ramcoa support group had talked about this and basically everybody there and a lot of other people I’ve talk to have a greed that it’s not exclusive, so unless you’re uncomfortable continue using them. If people are giving you shit about this redirect them to like people like me or switch case. 

i have a bit of a question regarding using number names as a non-RAMCOA survivor.

we have alters and many fragments who have numbers for/instead of names. we’ve been questioning being RAMCOA survivors for a while, but ultimately decided to simply drop it as it was damaging us and our mental health more than anything, and it really isn’t something we should’ve been looking into at all in the first place without the help of a therapist. i personally (jay) don’t believe we’re a RAMCOA survivor, but many others in the system genuinely do and it’s not exactly a debate we can settle easily.

my question is, what do we do about these alters and fragments? we don’t actually know whether we’re a survivor or not. do we just not let them front, or force them to pick names (something we have tried, but made them extremely upset/uncomfortable because according to them they had names, which were their numbers)? none of them front very often anyways, but right now anytime any of them have fronted they’ve essentially just been told they can’t talk anywhere publicly. we’re really stuck on what to do. we know it’s disrespectful, but we also don’t have any idea for sure if we can use them or not, and like i said we’ve completely dropped trying to figure it out because of how both damaging and potentially dangerous it was. what do we do?