Green Eyes Shouldn’t Actually Be Considered An Eye Color. It’s Just Not Common Enough, It’s A VERY

women (including trans and/or queer women) have the capacity to be misogynistic towards trans men. we are being treated as if we are little girls on this app. the word "transmisogyny" is something i see a lot more than the word "transphobia" recently. while it's okay and encouraged to talk about transmisogyny, i feel like trans men are being excluded for no reason on many posts. experiences that are actually had by all/most trans people are said to be exclusive to trans women. so then we try for transandrophobia and get shut down because trans men can't be oppressed, apparently. usually, i try to educate myself and listen as much as possible, but it's been monthssssss of this on tumblr. i feel like i'm being spoon-fed lessons on my own oppression, and i can't get down from the high chair...

Can I vent about something real quick?

The transandrophobe discourse bloggers are huge shitheads towards trans men, that much is obvious, but god they're also so fucking creepy towards genderless and nonbinary people.

They demand to know our genitals (so they can determine if we're TMA or TME for discourse points) and reduce us to them. We're either poor confused trans girls who just haven't realized we're actually transfem yet, or nasty theyfab future detransitioners who are out to get them.

Either way we're just confused little girls in their eyes.

For a group that (rightfully) talks about how Conservatives want to inspect genitals, they sure do love inspecting genitals.

I want to make some points clear to debunk the whole “trans men are just future detransitioned women” idea that’s been floating around:

The detransition rates of people who identify as trans men/masc and trans women/fem(me) are going to be pretty much the same, but TERF propaganda makes examples out of people who have detransitioned from male to female in order to support the claim that the trans community are “infecting” young girls. Their obsession with women “mutilating” their bodies causes them to pounce on anyone who detransitions from male/masc to female and use them as symbols of the “trans cult.” TERFs deliberately inflate the number of detransitioners, especially amongst trans men/mascs, in order to support their ideology. Do not fall for it.

The actual rate of detransitioning as a whole is already incredibly small, and an even smaller minority of that, go on to detransition “back” to a cis identity. In reality, the majority of detransitioners tend to detransition into a different gender identity that feels more comfortable to them, rather than their birth identity, and may still identify as trans— just not in the way they initially thought. Other reasons for detransitioning may include safety reasons or a lack of access to gender affirming care. By assuming that all detransitioners are people who have “returned” to identifying as cis, you are once again falling for TERF propaganda. TERFs do not care about detransitioners who still identify as trans or non-binary or some other form of gender divergent, nor do they care about people who detransition simply because they are not able to transition in the first place. You should care. Not all detransitioners identify as cis, and the community would do well to remember that.

TERFs are a cult, and cults groom their members. A lot of people struggling with their gender identity may fall into TERF spaces because they will initially be treated with sympathy and understanding, when in reality, their ultimate goal is to detransition someone. They will groom vulnerable people with rhetorics such as “the trans community will try to persuade you to transition and make you think that you need to escape your womanhood” or “we can help you to accept yourself for who you really are as a woman, because society has made you hate yourself for your gender non-conformity and tomboyish nature” and other such bullshit that only serves to break someone down into believing that their identity issues come from a trans-obsessed, woman-hating society. When you see prominent detransitioners who pedal TERF propaganda, it is very likely that they have been forced into pushing down their real issues in favour of finding acceptance in a group that claims to care about them. If we can find sympathy for people who have been forced into conversion therapy, or forced to hide their sexualities/gender identities because of the religious fanaticism around them, then you need to find sympathy for people who have been groomed by a cult into hating themselves. No, that does not mean excusing them for hurting the trans community by becoming handmaidens for TERFs, but understanding that they have also been hurt— and are being hurt— by TERFs may help us to acknowledge that a lot of these people needed support systems that they weren’t able to find quickly enough.

A lot of the most well-known detransitioners may still struggle with their gender identity, and are simply repressing it because they’ve been groomed too far into a cult that lied to them, and leaving that cult without a support system behind them is a terrifying thought. However, it needs to be acknowledged that all of this discourse amongst the trans community, particularly a growing hatred for trans men/mascs or non-binary people, is exactly why TERFs are able to groom them in the first place. In fact, the idea that “trans women and trans men are diametrically opposed to each other” is just TERF propaganda to encourage trans men to feel like they’re not accepted in the trans community and therefore need to find solace in TERF spaces, who will use their shared experiences of “girlhood” to prey on the fact that trans men have been made to hate themselves. Seeing other trans people spread around this idea is exactly what TERFs want. They want trans men/mascs and non-binary people who were born as women to turn away from the trans community so they can literally detransition them back into women. Don’t do their fucking job for them.

A lot of detransitioners are— surprise surprise— not assholes. The only ones we’re seeing are the ones that prominent TERFs are uplifting, when the ones who slide under the radar and are free to explore their gender identity how they want tend to not feel the need to throw the trans community under the bus. I’ve talked to many detransitioners before who weren’t groomed by the TERF cult and a lot of them speak very highly of the trans community because they were able to find space to learn about themselves, and regardless of what they eventually identified as, there was a mutual understanding that freedom to gender affirming care is beneficial for everybody. By using TERF detransitioners as examples of all detransitioners, you’re just excluding some of the most vocal supporters of gender affirming care that I’ve ever come across. Support them back!! The best way to fight against TERFs weaponising detransitioners is by supporting detransitioners, recognising their struggles, and uplifting the voices of those who do not spread TERF propaganda.

There is nuance to be had here, because insinuating that the current trans community is actively judgmental of detransitioners is, in itself, TERF propaganda, but it’s crucial that you don’t fall for it or let TERFs convince you that detransitioners are the enemy. Because I have heard stories from detransitioners who’ve experienced genuine hostility from queer spaces they’ve been in, so it’s always important to check your biases and make sure you’re not falling into any traps.

TL;DR: trans men are not future detransitioned women. The tiny, miniscule percentage of TERF detransitioners who identify as cisgender that you see are being propped up by other TERFs in order to spread propaganda, despite the fact that TERFs do not actually care about them or their struggles, and they have most likely been groomed into detransitioning in the first place (or at least, they have been groomed into an unhealthy and harmful mindset that will inevitably hurt them in the long run). Anyone who says that trans men are destined to detransition, or that detransitioners are the enemy, or that all detransitioners have cis privilege and should be shunned from the community are all falling into TERF ideology and should not be listened to.

hey don’t cry. every single transandrophobic post you see is actually just one of fite-club’s ten thousand alt accounts. yeah it’s okay. no one except him actually thinks like that

I really am just baffled at how many leftists still treat men and women like they're different species especially in trans spaces. Like it's just nonsensical to me to think one gender is more likely to be evil or bad over the other, whether that's based on pronouns or someone's body or someone upbringing. Not only have we seen time and time again that this "unique ability yo be evil" just doesn't exist (literally any person of any gender can and does actively perpetuate the patriarchy, transphobia, cissexism and more) but the idiots that charge into the transandrophobia conversation acting like trans men are evil or stupid are Also from every demographic.

It's not a gendered thing, it's a problem with people falling for radical feminism and refusing to see equal rights as a non-gendered thing, and also refusing to accept intersectionlity as anything more than "having she/her pronouns makes your life harder"

I'm not interested in arguing with ppl that think men of any kind are not worthy of love, acceptance and support, or that pronouns or upbringing or genitals makes someone more likely to be evil. Punitive, accusatory and guilt-based politics should be beneath all of us and yet it's the core of the belief system of so many.

Another facet of this conversation I absolutely loath is how it necessitates prioritizing binary trans ppl and perisex language, because "men is evil" mirroring white cis feminism again, doesn't work in spaces beyond its original closed box lmao

Friendly reminder that you don’t owe anyone here a debate.

Person thinks trans men can’t reclaim “tranny”?

Wow, that’s stupid. Block ‘em.

Some asshole believes that trans men are uniquely misogynistic or privileged or whatever fun discourse buzzword they’re using today?

Their prejudice is not your problem. Block ‘em.

Random blogger says trans men don’t experience (insert common form of transphobia here)?

Don’t try to prove them wrong by sharing details of your trauma. Just block ‘em.

The worst offenders aren’t going to change. They’re not going to listen to you, or engage in a good-faith debate. Speaking from experience, showing them any vulnerability will just result in it being used against you.

It’s sad, but these people are stuck in a discourse tar-pit that makes them see their trans siblings as enemies. They have to pull themselves out; they won’t hear a word you say, not when they’ve already made up their minds about you.

Don’t give them a platform. Don’t waste your time and energy on bad-faith arguments. Spend it with people who don’t make misunderstanding you their favorite hobby.

And remember:

Make sure you've blocked fite-club/rittz. Like half of the inane discourse yapping goes away when you do, it's great.

"you can't be a bisexual lesbian, that doesn't make sense."

"you can't be a bisexual gay, that doesn't make sense."

“trans-inclusive radfem” yeah, cool. you think cis AND trans men are evil. great. such an improvement to the belief

It is very funny that I have never met a trans woman irl who has been disbelieving or surprised that I, a non-passing FtM, do not feel safe in female only spaces. Maybe confused or curious but if I explain "well a lot of people will read me as a butch lesbian" not a single one has ever gone on to try and explain that actually I am still perfectly safe, because they understand that the "wrong" kind of woman is also deemed as dangerous. And when you are seen as dangerous you are yourself in danger.

I have faced violence specifically *for* being the "incorrect" type of "female" in a female only space, I have faced this before I even came out, before I realised I was not a girl. I know plenty of other trans men have, it's not splash damage, it's all punishment for existing outside of "safe" normality. A punch does not hurt less because the person who threw it thought I was something I'm not.

A lot of trans people on Tumblr talk about it like it's just, utterly impossible for trans men to also be unsafe in both single sex areas similarly to how trans women are, and while I'm glad that some of us *are* safe it is not a universal guarantee. The issue is that as long as we exist in a society where certain presentations and appearances are read by the majority as sexually threatening, then none of us are truly safe from the danger that represents.

we do not "love" to bring this up. it is traumatic. it is dysphoria inducing. it is capable of taking the lives of trans men/mascs that are forced to bring a child into this world against their will. stop fucking invalidating our trauma and oppression you absolute fucking transphobic asshole.

no one is fucking saying this is a privilege for trans women/fems. you are making up arguments in your head because you cannot handle the fact that you are being so disgustingly transphobic toward us so you have to pretend we are saying shit that was never said.

i will not be fucking silent about this. no trans men/mascs should be forced into silence when bringing up our very real systemic oppression. if it bothers you, then look inward.