I Was Thinking A Lot About The “Gohan Was Out-of-character During The Cell Games” Thing.

I was thinking a lot about the “Gohan was out-of-character during the Cell Games” thing.

Quite a few people on the Kanzenshuu community seem to think it’s the case, and they’re generally the people who understand this show the best. Because they don’t watch the dub or something even like DBZA and get misconceptions about the franchise because of it. 

(Not that I’m saying you shouldn’t watch the dub or DBZA. But remember they’re not the original story. They’re adaptations.)

And despite everything…I still don’t agree. And sometimes I feel like I have to agree at some point. That it’s just the objective truth. But so far, I can’t.

I think the big deal people point to is having Gohan try to end the battle with Cell peacefully. It’s a nice idea, but the inconsistency is that normally, Gohan had no issues with fighting someone even with the intent to kill. He did that with Nappa, with Vegeta, with the Ginyu Force and with Freeza. He never stopped and tried to end those battles peacefully, to reach a compromise, because he knew or at least assumed that they were all terrible monsters beyond the reach of common sense.

So the issue is, why would Gohan suddenly decide Cell was worth saving? Why would he explain they should stop fighting unless he wants to get killed? Like he wanted to spare Cell’s life?

Cell was presented like every other villain up until that point. He was ruthless. He killed without mercy. He massacred entire cities, absorbed the Androids without a second thought, and nearly killed Piccolo, if Goku hadn’t managed to save him. And when someone kills Piccolo, you’d think Gohan would know Cell was an irredeemable monster.

And with the Cell Games, Cell explains that if he wins, he’ll destroy every human being on the planet. That’s adequate motivation to decide “OK, Cell needs to die. And he needs to die NOW.”

But during their fight, Gohan then says he doesn’t have that motivation. He doesn’t want to hurt him. And the question is why? (Besides Toriyama trying to create a character arc for the final battle.)

I think the common fandom explanation is that Gohan believes that maybe Cell isn’t that evil. Once he becomes Perfect, he lets Vegeta and Trunks live, as well as Krillin and 16, even though he could have easily destroyed them. He gives the heroes time to train and recuperate. He tries to be fair. And, importantly, Gohan never sees the terrible things Cell does first-hand. He doesn’t witness his massacres, is training during most of his fights, and even when Cell seemingly kills Piccolo, the fact that Goku saves him almost immediately can make you believe it never happened. I know a lot of people actually forget it happens. Why wouldn’t it be the same for Gohan?

And the other explanation I can think of is the fact that, against Cell, Gohan is older. He’s more mature. Against the Saiyans and Freeza, he was 5 years old. He fights the Saiyans and Freeza because people tell him they’re evil, and because he witnesses them first-hand hurting the people he cares about. He doesn’t have much agency, and when given a chance to think for himself, he sees Nappa ripping off Tenshinhan’s arm and Oozaru Vegeta torturing Goku’s injured body and Freeza impaling Krillin by his horns, and then his 5-year-old’s logic clearly goes to “Alright. I have to fight this guy, because he’s clearly evil. Like other people told me.”

Against Cell, Gohan is 9-11 (depending on what canon you believe), and spent a year training, completely isolated from what was going on. He’s looking at Cell from an entirely different perspective, with a more developed brain and more time to think about the repercussions of his actions (that is, if he has to fight and even kill Cell). He’s the one who wants to be a scholar, so he’s the one you’d expect to be more willing to use his brain. And maybe overthink things.

When he fights Cell, for one of the first times in his life, he has agency. He looks at the problem, and realises he has a choice. He doesn’t have to do what his father says, or what Piccolo says, or what his mother says, or even what Cell says. And he does something no one was expecting. He looks at Cell, thinks that “even if he’s evil, he might not want to keep fighting for no reason”, and tries to stop their battle before it fully begins.

It’s just so interesting to me. Some people say it’s out-of-character, but for me, this is the first time Gohan starts truly becoming a character. Not a plot device, not “the kid with the hidden power”, not the audience surrogate, but a fully-realised character. One who, when given a choice, would rather not resort to violence. One who actually feels appropriate to his dream of being a scholar and his more polite manner of speaking.

If you keep looking at this in terms of whether it’s an inconsistency or not, you miss out on such unique moments. You miss out on opportunities for the franchise to grow.

It was why I tried to defend Goku’s character, inconsistencies and all. I used the “in real life, people aren’t consistent” excuse in one of my videos, which I know is a bit of a reach, but it’s a nice idea. I actually don’t mind if things aren’t 100% consistent, as long as it doesn’t harm the character itself. And as long as it doesn’t make other parts of the series retroactively painful to watch.

(Like, you know. Everything where Gohan is written as the main character.)

More Posts from Jpx0999 and Others

7 months ago

Its that undertale logic fr fr

If they are wearing a stripped shirt they MUST be a child

whats with child fnaf protagonists and wearing striped shirts

Whats With Child Fnaf Protagonists And Wearing Striped Shirts
Whats With Child Fnaf Protagonists And Wearing Striped Shirts
Whats With Child Fnaf Protagonists And Wearing Striped Shirts

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4 months ago

Its always interesting to see the difference between how fans who have seen/read OG Dragon Ball before Z and fans who only watched Z perceive Yamcha as a character. Doubly so if they only watched the English dubs.

Z-only viewers treat Yamcha as this pathetic loser who is a regular cheater/womanizer and that of course Bulma would dump him for the murderous space pirate who barely a couple of years ago was indirectly responsible for his death among others.

Fans who have followed DB from the beginning know Yamcha is none of those things. Aside from his stint as a bandit, he was nothing but a firendly, helpful and respectful dude. Hell, it was Bulma who drove him away twice over petty nonsense and he still hoped that there was a future for them together. Their relationship was pretty toxic at times. Him cheating on her was a dub line and for some reason Toriyama decided that it totally makes sense Yamcha is a sudden cheater when it was Bulma who was drooling after every attractive dude before she settled on Vegeta. Gotta justify her banging the unrepentent space pirate somehow.

He took on the Saibaman for Krillin not out of arrogance, but to avoid the risk of Krillin dying again. At the time a second death would have been permanent. And he beat the little plant gremlin and was only killed due to the surprise attack, not because he was weak. To most OG fans, this wasn’t a meme or a lol-yamcha-so-weak moment. It was a shocking and iconic moment that really raised the stakes for the battle.

The whole womanizer thing is usually brought up or implied in the games and the like, but the main series shows no evidence of it. Trunks says his mom told him that he cheated, but as mentioned above, I take it with a container’s worth of salt.

And Yamcha could’ve easily been a prick about it. He was saddened, but he didn’t resent Bulma or Vegeta or even Trunks. He was humble enough to get out of the way during the Android scuffle since he knew he was dead weight by then and as such opted to take care of one of his oldest friends while the others kept fighting. It was Yamcha who told Trunks about how Vegeta reacted to Cell killing him. He didn’t have to do it, but did it anyway. When Vegeta had his dumbass Majin stint and then died, Yamcha comforted Bulma but never tried to take advantage of her. If that isn’t a good dude right there, I don’t know what is.

And before someone gives the “But Toriyama said” spiel, keep in mind that he manages to contradict himself multiple times with regards to Yamcha’s “womanizing ways”.

“Oh, he cheats now that he’s more confident”

“He has a girlfriend at the end of the Cell arc”

“No wait, he hasn’t really gotten over his fear of women, but worked as host in a host bar and then lost his job and lived with Tenshinhan and Chaozu for a bit”

Toriyama has always been forgetful towards his own series. His infamous conversation with Oda when Oda had to remind him who Tao was. He forgot Super Saiyan 2 was a thing. He forgot to draw Launch in the Boo arc and replaced her with #17. He fucking forgot that the recent Dragon Ball anime/manga was called DB Super, which is why the last movie was called Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero. So a lot of what the guy says in interviews is most likely the result of him making shit up on the fly because people just wouldn’t let Dragon Ball end.

Basically, Yamcha was the sacrificial lamp for most of the series. Was given a bad hand multiple times and is still a good dude in spite of it. I could write for days on how many issues I have with the Dragon Team just accepts Vegeta before he actually shows any redeeming qualities.

4 months ago

The concept of rezero modern AUs that are "the same but different" (meaning all the fantasy elements are replaced by realistic equivalents) is so funny. Like what do you make of arc 2? Does Subaru get bitten by a normal puppy and get normal rabies? Does the Milwaukee Protocol work on him? Does he later learn a little girl intentionally got a rabid dog to bite him? And his clown boss asked her to because his horoscope said so? You have to understand his life actually gets way more insane if you try to make it normal

4 months ago

My favorite relationship dynamic in fiction is a worshipper and their God. Not a literal God, but their God. The only thing in the whole world that matters to them. I will live for you, I would die for you, I would kill for you. My only moral compass is You. You can do no wrong in my eyes and I will never stray from your side. I was born to meet you and to love you. You are the only being I pray to. Your life isn’t just my passion, it’s my religion. You don’t think you’re anything special but you don’t see what I see. You don’t see that you’re the only person who’s ever made me feel this way. You don’t understand how beautiful you are to me and I will devote my entire life to making you understand and accept it.

4 months ago

Some Fun Facts According to Sparking Zero’s Encyclopedia (aka Girl Talk)

Chichi still thinks ALL Super Saiyans are delinquents (and yes that includes Frieza’s golden form) meanwhile Bulma defends the Super Saiyan forms.

Chichi considers Krillin to be just as tough as a Saiyan because of all that he’s been through.

Bulma LOVES Vegeta’s red hair when he turns into a SSJ God.

Videl wonders if she and Future Gohan ever crossed paths in the future timeline. She also wishes she was there to fight by his side when he faced the androids.

Chichi thinks SSJ3 Goku and SSJ4 Gogeta are scary looking.

The girls all agreed that Krillin hit the jackpot with Android 18.

According to Videl, Vegeta is a good cook.

Chichi still hasn’t forgiven Piccolo for kidnapping Gohan, but looks past it cause Gohan looks up to Piccolo.

Bulma thinks Piccolo’s fusion with Nail and Kami is unimpressive compared to the other fusions she’s seen.

Bulma has a biased towards SSJ Blue, cause well, blue hair lol

Videl believes Goku and Bulma were positive influences on Vegeta (she’s right).

The girls don’t like Paragus for what he did to Broly (Super).

Bulma thinks SSJ4 Vegeta is “cool looking” and “wild”.

Videl thinks Baby Vegeta is scary.

The girls don’t understand the purpose behind Frieza stretched out head in his 3rd form. They think he looks gross.

Bulma defends Vegeta as a father and husband, saying he’s a good dad to their kids.

Videl hopes that Yamcha will find love someday.

The girls think Garlic Jr is Pilaf

Bulma is glad Trunks doesn’t have a tail, fearful of what would happen to the house if her husband and kids could transform into a giant apes.

Bulma mistook Recoome for Android 16.

Videl is shocked to learn Piccolo was once a villain.

Videl wants a “foodie buddy” like Whis is to Bulma.

Bulma confirms she’s the breadwinner of her family while Vegeta is the protector.

The girls wonder and are envious that Android 18 will most likely stay young and beautiful forever.

Bulma wonders why Zamasu didn’t steal Vegeta’s body instead of Goku’s.

Videl did not know that Bulma and Yamcha used to date.

The girls criticized Baby Vegeta for constantly changing forms so quickly XD

Chichi respects Bulma for slapping Beerus across the face.

Chichi hopes to one day meet Bardock in Otherworld and thank him for bringing Goku to her

2 months ago
This Is The Standard Winged Nightjar And It Has One Singular Stupidly Big Feather On Each Wing... If

This is the standard winged nightjar and it has one singular stupidly big feather on each wing... if you even care.

3 weeks ago
Have A Great Day Everybody

Have a great day everybody

1 year ago

Otto wtf Man,his mask managed to affect even us,entities of a literal HIGHER REALITY who seems downtigth omnicient in comparision

Wtf otto

why the emilia camp thinks otto is their most threatening member 👍

i see some people being confused on why the emilia camp collectively seems to agree that otto is the biggest threat there for some reason and like. yeah. i get it.

but let me explain real quick why i think it makes sense for the emilia camp to think that :O !!

otto though is disarming because. well okay look at him he doesnt look threatening at all. he has the looks and personality of a wet cat. hes whiny. hes cringe fail. he gets stressed out with paperwork. he looks like you could just smack him around like a bug. he HAS been smacked around like a bug. but that makes him unpredictable because apart from roswaal, he is the Most Amoral one there. you can expect roswaal to be trying some shit, but youd never know when to expect otto is planning something. his moral compass is just “does this benefit me or my loved ones in some way? if not, then its gonna be gone 🥺”.

sure, he does nice things sometimes out of the goodness of his heart. he genuinely means well a lot of the time.

but also then you read the shit hes thinking in his internal dialogue and its like.

“should i go save some girl i dont even know from bandits??? hmm lemme think for a couple minutes. im the only one that can help rn… some guy claiming to be her dad is begging me to help his daughter, but also hes kind of annoying… but i dont even live in this city so why should i help… or Care. actually. but i feel kinda bad about this girl… but also this is gonna put me and my profits in danger… but if i reject helping then im forever gonna be known as the guy who abandoned them and then i wont be able to make any sales in this city anymore :<<<< ……anyway im gonna help them then lol im so smart.” and then he gets captured by the exact same bandits anyway so hes like “well okay now me and this girl might be sold into slavery so i might as well save both of us or ill feel bad ☝️☝️”

(yes. yes this is genuinely ottos thought process if you read through the Otto's Bittersweet Peddling Log side story.)

except all the back and forth Calculation he does in his head Stays In His Head and doesnt match up with his outward appearance most of the time. which means that sometimes his words dont match up with his actions. “dont be surprised if i leave at the first sign of danger,” he says, right after risking his life and writing a suicide note over a dude hes known for like four days. “ahah thanks for giving me a vacation to see my family…” he says, damn well knowing he cant go back home yet otherwise he’ll get sniped by assassins. “im gonna give you some of my own money bounty money to help you BUT BUT BUT DONT THINK THAT IM NICE OR ANYTHING I NEED MOST OF THE MONEY FOR REPAIRS OK YOU CAN ONLY HAVE A BIT :<<<“

this also means that whenever otto says or does something Particularly Questionable, all his friends are still kinda blindsided by it because otherwise otto seems Mostly Fine in comparison to whatever the hell everyone else has going on. hes just a wet pathetic cat of a guy ahah. theres nothing more going on with h—

“if everyone in vollachia dies but rem and natsuki-san live, then we’ve won. if everyone in vollachia lives but rem and natsuki-san die, then we’ve lost.”

um otto can you repeat that. what the fuck did you just say.

otto looks Mostly Normal, Just Stressed Out or Somewhat Chilling the vast majority of the time, and then he whacks you over the head with a steel chair. like can you imagine being garfiel and learning that this pathetic rag of a man is actually pretty brave when it counts. youre like “oh cool lol we kinda beat each others asses and i was Annoyed but now that thats all over i got some newfound respect for you!!” and then you read through his diary and hes got a suicide note in there, which is like. okay fine whatever hes kind of a clown just like my New Captain lol but hes dedicated to his friends, ill give him that. and then a year later you find your now brother figure (whos also lowkey highkey an alcoholic) with a broken hand after punching a wall because he couldnt do his Lets Abandon 50 Million People Plan and youre just sitting there going

Why The Emilia Camp Thinks Otto Is Their Most Threatening Member 👍

and okay dont get me wrong—subaru is Batshit Crazy. in Multiple Incomprehensible Ways. if the emilia camp (or Anyone. At All.) knew about all the shit hes done and been through with rbd, subaru would INSTANTLY be skyrocketing up the Most Threatening People list. but at the same time subarus less threatening than otto in the sense that subarus Always going to want to do good. hes Always going to want to save everyone. hes Extremely forgiving, on top of that. he goes along picking up friends everywhere he goes in his own Incomprehensible Unhinged Way and hes fond of All of them.

otto? yeah his opinion of you could shift on a dime and you could end up in his personal shit list unless youre one of the *checks list* *clears throat* maybe like ten people he cares about. and even if youre on the I Care About You! :) list, he could still get pissed enough at you to, i dont know, punch a wall over you? and spiral into obsession? and even if hes not upset at you hes still gonna mansplain manipulate malewife his way to his goals <33

and yeah of course subaru is also Mansplain Manipulate and Gaslight Gatekeep but at least he has way more good intentions AND his attitude about it is gonna be like "sorry :<<< i just gotta do this for your sake :<<<<<< :((( haha dont worry about it". subaru would never ever want to do anything big to hurt his loved ones (except for rbd). while otto doesnt even bat an eye. everyone can be manipulated if he has to. he goes down his list of Things I Need To Do and goes "yeah that had to be done. oh well. anyway i got more shit to do (like maybe kill a toddler lol)"

also lets talk about roswaal's perspective really quick. post-arc 4 hes like "well subaru-kun is always gonna want to save everyone and hes doing a pretty good job of things in general so whatever lol. i can still keep him in check by killing everyone if even one of his friends dies :)". so its like. YEAH subarus an Unhinged Wildcard. roswaal knows that. but right now subaru is more predictable and also again, roswaal knows he can keep subaru in check by making subaru have to reset if roswaal really needs to.

but otto? yeah ottos second in line for being an Unhinged Wildcard. but whats even worse is that otto is Basically Subaru but More Calculating and with a moral backbone thats Near Nonexistent. roswaal was genuinely concerned for otto in arc 8 for once and there was still Literally No Stopping Otto from being a stubborn little shit whos hell bent on all the maladjusted insane mentalities hes got floating around in his head, half of which he doesnt even say out loud, and all of which he thinks is Completely Right and that theres Nothing Wrong with what hes doing.

and also otto being underestimated and Not In The Tome was a big help as to how subaru got the win over roswaal in arc 4 👍and then otto Continues to try keeping an eye on roswaal after arc 4, to the point of getting roswaal's tome and actively trying to investigate roswaal's actions, so roswaal is Very Aware that otto is. a bit of a threat. roswaal of course is smarter and more powerful than otto though, but that still doesnt change the fact that otto is still capable of being a threat if roswaal doesnt Also kind of keep an eye on otto back. because roswaal kind of lost to otto already in arc 4!!

but okay, on top of all of this, no one knows the full extent of whats going on with otto, not even roswaal (though he has his Suspicions), and most definitely not subaru yet (whos Still a bit of an otto apologist anyway), and otto is already a bit menacing even without knowing All of that. and the rest of the emilia camp are already a bit more lenient with roswaal (as hes seemingly chilled out after arc 4 + they all need him still). that, and you can easily Expect roswaal post-arc 4 to be suspicious and Probably up to something. you wont know what it is, but you wont Exactly be surprised when it happens.

and also roswaal isnt publicly batshit crazy like otto is. otto of course isnt as Openly Weird as subaru, but otto is still Openly Unhinged and Pathetic. just look at him declaring julius and anastasia, HIS CAMP'S ALLIES, as enemies right to their faces alsdfjlsdjfl.

and with subaru, there is Zero doubt in the emilia camp's minds that subaru wants the best for them and everyone around them.

otto though? yeah he also wants whats best for the camp. he Cares about them, he really does. but hes so obviously Questionable by the time you get to arc 8 to the point where the entire rest of the camp starts eyeing him like this:

Why The Emilia Camp Thinks Otto Is Their Most Threatening Member 👍

theres also the fact that ottos dp allows him to have eyes and ears Everywhere so long as he doesnt overuse it. that paired with his Intelligence, Stubbornness, and Lack of Morals or self-awareness/sometimes guilt/regret over his actions is dangerous. theres a reason why gluttony if subaru decided to flood The Entire Surrounding Area Around Otto. the flood took away the potential army otto couldve made out of the animals and allies otto had in the city, and once you do that, whats otto going to do against someone like shaula? all of ottos power regarding his People Skills and Animal DP was stripped away.

but if that Isnt stripped away... well honestly otto can do whatever the hell he wants the moment he figures out a solid plan to try and get what he wants. his biggest ability at the core of what makes him dangerous is his ability to quite Literally be in the background. so long as hes underestimated, so long as he still has secrets, no ones gonna know the full extent of his bullshit!! you cant stop him if you dont even realize what hes going to do, and hes Good at doing that!!

and if gluttonybaru hadnt taken out otto, subaru would be skyrocketing right to the top of ottos shit list after subaru literally just killed All of ottos (and previously subarus.) loved ones. otto wouldnt stop until he figured out how to destroy subaru. its to the point where im pretty sure if otto had to choose between destroying half the world vs kill gluttonybaru once and for all, otto would certainly choose one of those options in a Heartbeat.

anyway. if youre an emilia camp member, and you see the dude whos in charge of the Vast Majority of the factions political affairs, the guy who you Know is very intelligent and competent and determined when it counts, say shit like "if everyone dies in this entire country i wouldnt even give a single flying fuck as long as our friends get back safe and sound :) it would be such a loss if the entire country lived but our friends didnt :<<<" OF COURSE I WOULD BE LIKE YEAH THAT GUY IS THE MOST DANGEROUS ONE HERE. HE HAS THE SKILLS AND THE MOTIVATION TO BACK UP THAT STATEMENT AND I WONT EVEN KNOW WHEN ITD HAPPEN. he also has the Mental Instability to back that up too, given the amount of times he spends drinking and Raging and Being Terribly Anxious over Every Little Thing.

youll be sweating buckets being wary of otto while ottos casually standing there with his wet cat looks and a knife in your back.

and otto has, for the most part, some of the most normal trauma compared to a bunch of people in this cast (not to discount ottos trauma and pain or anything but its true lajdsfls sorry otto. but also im not sorry because arc 5 was partially on you T^T). he doesnt have rbd, he doesnt have some weird family drama bullshit going on like the astreas or emilias family or the segmunts, he hasnt been erased by gluttony, etc etc. but hes still like this. if you put him in subarus position and gave him rbd, he would get even worse than he already is.

yeah so anyway thats my quick rambley psa about why i think it makes sense that the emilia camp's voted otto as the most threatening one there 👍

but the fact that we (the audience) (or at least some of us!!) keep questioning why the hell the emilia camp thinks otto is the biggest threat there is means that otto's funny silly guy image is. Kind of Working??? just a little bit.

because. granted. of course i think subaru is easily the most threatening person there with both His Flavor of Insanity and rbd. subaru is an eldritch horror in every single way. but at the same time - hes an eldritch horror who thinks friendship is the best magic of all T^TT !!! he FORGIVES PEOPLE WHO'VE KILLED AND TORTURED HIM. hes not threatening in this sense - the fact that hes kind of just way too nice in this sense!!! granted yes, he IS abusing rbd and Terrifying and Threatening in a multitude of ways, but i'd rather take my chances with mainbaru over main otto right now HAH T^TT at least subaru will apologize and start bawling his eyes out if he stabs some random innocent civilian and stranger in the gut for Some Necessary Reason!! otto would feel a bit bad and then completely Eradicate that feeling of guilt with "i had to do it. it was them or me so no regrets <3".

because otto..................... yeah otto is the Worlds Most Pathetic Yandere to his whole camp.

1 month ago

Also naruto's Canon birthday

No shade to the stuff that’s currently trending at this very moment or the people posting the things. But. Today is an anniversary of a variety of major world events and NONE of them are trending.

For those who are unaware:

No Shade To The Stuff That’s Currently Trending At This Very Moment Or The People Posting The Things.
No Shade To The Stuff That’s Currently Trending At This Very Moment Or The People Posting The Things.
No Shade To The Stuff That’s Currently Trending At This Very Moment Or The People Posting The Things.

It’s literally autism day in every way yet it’s not trending


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