I Am 100% Convinced That Talia Al Ghul And Dick Grayson Don't Get Along Because When She Was Dating Bruce

Another post reminded me of Jason Todd's very very first appearance and how he was also a circus-raised orphan who wanted to get revenge for his parents' murder, except this time he has red hair.

He got super retconned, obviously, and I think this version of him got unmade during the Crisis on Infinite Earths... But I like to think that The Prodigy is his spiritual reincarnation. I mean, they're both redheaded circus boys who wanted to be seen at Dick's brother, both "replaced" Dick and he didn't take it well, both went through a career-ending beating.

And just in general, redheaded Jason specifically haunts a lot of stories. I recall a Justice League one where a baddie put the League into their dream worlds - and Batman's was one where he and Selina were married and retired, where Tim had taken on the role of Batman with a Robin of his own.

Tim's Robin? Bruce and Selina's redheaded son.

I think this indicates as well that, at the time, Bruce didn't want Dick to be Batman. Nightwing is who Bruce wishes Batman could be, having him take over would be a downgrade for Dick. I also think that at that time he very much considered Tim to be capable of becoming a better form of Batman, one he could trust in enough to actually let go of his city.

Idk I'm just in a mood to push all these concepts together and gesture "you get me?"

The Batman (2022)

Psychoanalyzation of Batman and the Riddler

This movie is about the corrupt officials running the crime ridden city of Gotham. Batman is trying to uncover it all, as the Riddler brings everything into public attention. He wants to show the truth of the lying, murder, and corruption that is behind public officials in their city. He wants them to pay for their sins, as he says. Batman wants to protect the city from crime, be a figure to scare it away–he stands for justice. They both want to stand for justice, unmasking the truth, and bringing vengeance–something good. They do this through secret identities, personas, scare tactics, violence, and in the riddlers case murder. In that way, Batman and the riddler both represent something so similar yet slightly different.

Bruce Wayne – a millionaire's son, parents murdered on the street, and from a young age was forced to take on the responsibility of being a Wayne. Carrying a family legacy, being part of the big public eye, businesses, etc. When he took on the role of being Batman, it was a subconscious comfort for him. Something more therapeutic than realized. It became his main identity, his life. “Two years of nights have turned me into a nocturnal animal,” he says.

Bruce Wayne is secluded, wasn’t seen often. Growing up in such a dark place, no father, no mother, no support other than money–you’re bound to be this depressive figure. It’s an interesting depiction of depression, the loss of motivation to work, to follow those forced schedules that only drain you. Like Alfred tells him, “you have to keep up appearances, you’re still a Wayne.” Depression isn’t noticed in someone like this. Growing up with so much fear, in a city like this, he developed a complex. This conversation he has with Alfred, about the Wayne family legacy and what he’s doing; “I don’t care about that. Any of that,” he says.

“You don’t care about your family’s legacy?”

“What I'm doing is my family's legacy. If I can't change things here, if I can't have an effect, then I don’t care what happens to me.” He’s enraptured in his life as Batman, but he believes it’s what is needed. His family were public officials, trying to change the city for the better–that’s what he wants as well. It’s a cycle; Losing his parents at a young age → becoming an orphan, not having a healthy childhood with key protections → learning to fight fear on his own → protecting other people from danger to feel complete → still afraid, but subconsciously unaware and trying to fight it with public vigilance and inflicting fear. “Fear is a tool.”

The riddler has a better read on Batman then is really noted by Batman’s actual character. Perhaps he did know these things, just suppressed it, or perhaps it was all subconscious. Both the Riddler and Batman grew up as orphans. The difference is one was poor, and one was very privileged. The similarities they carried sparked the Riddlers' interest in him. He said that he was inspired by Batman; “you showed me all it takes is fear and a little focused violence–you inspired me.” Batman tries to avoid the realization his actions of trying to make things better inspired terrorism and the birth of a criminal who destroyed the city, it angers him. But eventually, he realizes what he needed to do differently. It only took the near death of a father-figure, falling in love then losing that love, a demolished city, and a few crazy criminals to make him say, “vengeance won’t change the past.”

Unlike Batman, the Riddler is actually aware of the similarities in their psyche, and believes they are almost the same. “Your mask is amazing. I wish you could of seen me in mine. Ain’t it funny? All everyone wants to do is unmask you, but they’re missing the point. You and I both know I’m looking at the real you right now.” He believes that he can read him, connect to them on a level of their actions and trauma. He sees the similarity between them. Batman, on the other hand, refuses to see it that way. He recognizes that yes, they were both orphans, both grew up in a melancholic, crime ridden city, and developed trauma because they were never properly taken care of. Alongside that, the truth of his fathers death being revealed is also making him come to his own reality. But if he has to face that reality, that everything he has devoted his life, his coping to for the past 2 years was pretty much a huge infringement, he has to reevaluate everything he was afraid of.

Edward Nashton, the Riddler, is a character shaped by systemic neglect and the corruption of Gotham City. Unlike Batman, whose trauma stems from the privileged position of a very wealthy orphan, the riddler represents the unseen stuffing masses of people of Gotham. He verbalates this anger and disparity with his very emotionally charged monologues:

“Do you know what being an orphan is? It's thirty kids to a room, twelve year olds and already a drophead, numbing the pain. You wake up screaming with rats chewing your fingers, and every winter one of the babies dies because it's so cold. But, oh no! Let's talk about the billionaire with the lying, dead daddy because at least money makes it go down easy, doesn't it? Bruce Wayne.”

The Riddler discreetly confronts the hypocrisy of Gotham's social and societal hierarchy. His hatred towards Bruce Wayne is just personal jealousy—it's ideological. He sees Bruce Wanye as a symbol of the privileged elite who willingly remain ignorant to the suffering of those less fortunate than others. Unlike Batman, the Riddler has no moral code to limit his actions. His belief in vengeance is absolute which leads him to enact what he sees as justice through sadistic and almost theatrical murders. The quote, “It can be cruel, poetic, or blind. But when it is denied, it's your violence you may find.” really encapsulates his perspective that justice is an obligation and when it's absent, chaos and discretion are the only recourse.

Despite their big ideological differences, the Riddler and Batman share a lot of disturbing similarities: they are both productions of Gothams’ corruption, both operate in the shadows, and both seek to expose the city's darkest and most corrupt secrets. The Riddler takes Batman's methods to an extreme, demonstrating how close the line between villain and hero can be. One of the most chilling moments in the film is when the Riddler expresses admiration for Batman, claiming he was inspired by him: “You showed me what was possible. You showed me all it takes is fear and a little focused violence. You inspired me!” This statement forces Batman to confront the possible consequences of his actions. His presence in Gotham, meant to be a force of good and a beacon of hope, has bred figures such as the Riddler, who takes his ideology and distorts it into something more sinister.

While Batman is known to only work alone, he does surround himself with allies but he keeps them at arm's length, while the Riddler is defined by his isolation. He is a man who has spent his whole life feeling invisible, his pain is ignored by the very system he tries to dismantle. His belief in his cause is so strong that he assumes Batman will join him in his big plan and mission, further emphasizing his detachment of reality and his furtherment into delusion. In his final monologue he says: “Oh, if only you knew how long I've been waiting for this day, for this moment. I've been inisale my whole life. I guess I Won't be anymore, will I? They remember me now. They'll remember both of us.” This moment really cements the Riddler as a tragic figure. His entire life has been consumed by the needs for recognition, and in his mind, his grand plan has finally achieved that. He doesn't want to be remembered—he wants to be understood.

The Riddler serves as a reminder of gothams failures. Where Batman chooses to fight against corruption while adhering to a strict moral code, the Riddler embraces the city's darkness. He forces both Batman and the audience to confront the uncomfortable truths about systemic inequality. In the end, the Riddler stands alone, not because of his lack of purpose, but because his means of achieving justice are too extreme even for Gothams dark savior.

By the end of the movie Batman won the battle, but the Riddlers message still stands—justice in Gotham is not just about vengeance; it's about understanding who is allowed to suffer and why

Notes - This is our first essay we have written together!! Half was written by me (scout) and half was written by maddie. We love watching these movies and digging deeper into the characters and plot. If you have any recommendations—please share! - S+M

No notes, just joy

Thinking back to this panel, I think Tim has an opportunity to be the biggest little shit if truth serum gets involved.

Villain: With that truth serum flowing through Batman's little sidekick's veins, he will have no choice but to reveal the bat's deepest secrets.

Tim (as Robin): So whatever I say now will have to be accepted as the truth, no matter what?

Villain: Yes, because you have no other options.

Tim:

Tim: Batman called me dad once.

This! Write what you want to read! We are beings of creation, indulge in the ability to create!

the self-indulgent fanfiction will continue until morale improves

The biggest question Steph grapples with throughout her entire pregnancy is the question of whether or not she should give up her baby. By closely examining the elements from Steph's dream sequence as she gives birth the reason Stephanie eventually decides to give up her baby becomes apparent.

We first see this question arise in Robin #58, where sitting on a rooftop, pretty soon after discovering her pregnancy, Steph brings up the idea that she wants to keep the baby, and says she doesn’t know how she could give it up.

Steph seems to continue with adoption arrangements despite this confession, although we can see that Steph seemingly spends the rest of her pregnancy arc secretly debating the matter.

We see this subtly illustrated through the usage of magazines. Steph begins her pregnancy reading magazines geared towards her age range and gender, ("teen" and "boys") with one magazine seemingly about pregnancy "9 Months".

Robin #59

When we see Steph reading magazines again a few issues later, she has a "clothes for baby" catalogue and a "teen" magazine. She seems to be looking at the baby clothes catalogue when Tim walks into the room, causing her to subtly hide it under the "teen" magazine.

Robin #61 / #62

Steph brings up a big question on that rooftop in Robin #59: how can she possibly give up her baby? And although it appears at first Steph accepts and moves on, choosing to give up her baby, we know that this question never really got answered for Steph, she’s still been thinking all the while throughout her pregnancy, while reading these magazines, while hiding her doubts until the last moment: how is she going to be able to go through with this?

But we don't get final confirmation of this fact until Steph finally voices her conflict to Tim, the same night she goes into labor. Notice how all the magazines around her are now all baby related.

Robin #64

When Steph finally cracks and confesses to Tim her desire to keep the baby after all, Tim tries to reason with her. Although Steph seems to agree with some of his points, it’s very important to note that it still doesn’t seem like Steph’s committed to the choice to give up her baby for adoption. She says she knows it’s the right thing to do, but she trails off with a ‘but…’ making her indecisiveness clear. She still hasn’t really made up her mind.

Steph goes into labor later the same night, and due to unspecified complications is rushed to the hospital. Steph is given some kind of anesthesia, and enters her dream as a c-section is performed. When she exits her dream and awakes, baby born, something has changed.

Robin #65

So if Stephanie, all throughout her pregnancy up has been questioning this, finally voicing her doubts the night before she goes into labor, and when she awakes, she has come to a firm decision she says she figured on her own, the only place and time where Steph could have made this choice is during her dream sequence.

So what about the dream changed her mind?

One of the big repeated themes throughout Stephs dream sequence is a conflation of her own childhood and that of her baby's. Stephs feelings and memories meld, and the line between her and her baby is shaky.

This isn't a random detail, or even an inevitability of a dreamlike state: it's a specific choice and I think it explains how and why Steph makes up her mind the way she does.

Stephs biggest influence towards the idea of giving her baby up for adoption is her fear that her baby might experience a similar childhood to her own. We see this argument start to convince Steph when Tim brings up Stephs own childhood the night she goes into labor and when Steph appears more confident in the idea of giving up her baby in the Secret Origins 80 Page Giant, it's directly connected to the idea of sparing her baby the same garbage childhood she was subjected to.

Steph is convinced finally to give up her baby because the conflation between her babys potential childhood and her own childhood in her dream sequence convinces her that the elements which made her childhood so shitty have not fundamentally changed.

Crystal Brown

Despite their relationship seemingly better than perhaps in years, Dream-Crystal is portrayed as completely oblivious to the danger Arthur presents, ushering him in and even scolding Steph for her concern. If Steph and Crystals relationship is at such a high point, then why would Steph’s mind portray Crystal as someone who opens the door to this danger and ignores this threat?

Because it’s something Steph is dredging up from her own childhood. It’s not malicious, but it’s apparent that despite being a target of Arthur’s physical abuse, Crystal historically has been quick to assume the best of Arthur and ignore hints of his worse nature. By the time Steph’s pregnancy arc has begun Crystal is able to recognize Arthur as shitty, but throughout Steph’s childhood that’s just not the case. (Both drug use and a malfunctioning ‘lie detector’ as Steph puts it, seem to be to blame for this).

Batman Chronicles #22 / Secret Files 80 Page Special / Robin #111

Stephs subconscious doesn't have faith that Crystal has changed. Despite Crystal having progressed and become much more present and cognizant of the harm Arthur poses, Stephs subconscious is still wary. This is realistic. Maybe it's not fair to Crystal, but Steph can't help holding onto this fear, at least subconsciously. To be fair, it can’t have been over a year since Crystal was smiling at Arthur, seemingly accepting him back from prison soon before Steph dons the Spoiler costume for the first time. This breaks part of Steph’s counterargument to Tim in Robin #64 where she asserts she could raise her baby with the help of her mom. Despite all the progress Steph and Crystal have made, Steph still isn't able to fully trust Crystal with her baby, and her dream shows that.

2. Arthur Brown

Cluemaster appears, the subconscious fear of how he poisoned Stephs childhood leaking over to how she thinks about her baby's hypothetical childhood with her. Would her baby be safe from Arthur?

Steph knows very well that Arthur is free from jail and as dangerous as ever: between their encounter in Blunt Trauma where he tried to kill her, and the fact that he destroyed her and Crystals house, the physical threat of Arthur Brown is readily apparent.

Robin #54

But its not the physical harm that her father poses which the dream fixates on. As per usual for Steph, she seems much less scared of her father hurting her as she is frightened by the idea of his criminality as a symbol of her own wrongness.

Just like Steph believes her own self to be poisoned by her relation to Arthur she fears that her baby might be tainted the same way. Her fear isn't absolutely unfounded either. Arthur is free, and he's ransacked and destroyed Stephs home during Cataclysm. His recent violation and destruction of what should be a safe place, much like he barges in and disrupts Stephs peace in her dream, signify how Arthurs still has and would have this huge presence in Steph -- and by extension her baby's -- life.

So, Steph has two reasons which warn her against keeping her baby, two things she is afraid would give her baby the one thing she wants to avoid: it having the same shitty childhood as her. But not everything is the same as when she was a kid, right? Now she has allies, friends even, who are powerful and capable. Hell, Stephs a hero too! That means something, doesn't it?

3. The Heroes Arrive

Stephs subconscious seems to think so, at least to a degree. Steph isn't left alone to save her baby. As her panic mounts, the heroes appear just in time.

And just like that Steph is wearing her Spoiler costume, the symbol of her agency, the thing that allowed her to stand up to her father in the first place.

Vigilantism is therefore empowering, and the connections (albeit highly tenuous connections) Steph has made in the hero community are empowering also.

Steph has new factors, factors which weren't present in her own childhood which can step in, the situations are not actually identical, maybe she can keep her baby, maybe it will be safe.

Some of the heroes she conjures make a lot of sense, Steph is very close with Robin, he's supported her especially during her pregnancy and he's one of the last people she saw before entering her dream. She's had a positive encounter with Connor Hawke which clearly influenced her. Even her tenuous encounter with Huntress proved to Steph Helena was highly capable. I honestly don't know why Nightwing is there, they haven't met. And Batman. The Batman.

Notice Batman's dialogue. If it sounds familiar, that's because Steph said an almost identical line in the last issue, in that same moment Tim and her are discussing Steph keeping her baby.

Dream-Batman parrots the same language as Steph, the same sentiment, but not about Steph, about her baby. How much has really changed, then?

The heroes fight, but its to a standstill. The assorted heroes present fight the assorted villains that Arthur has brought with him, but Arthur himself is untouched, her baby is still in harms way. And Steph, stands there in the middle of it, horrified and still as Crystal laughs behind her.

Steph's subconscious decides its not enough. Theres so many of these heroes, sure, but they can't stop Arthur, can they? They couldn't when it was Steph in danger, when it was Steph who needed saving. It's no ones fault. But Steph knows.

Just like it always has: Steph knows it comes down to her.

4. Catch

Arthur throws her baby into the air, and we've arrived at the final moments of her dream. And so, the final question, the deciding moment. Can Steph rely on herself?

After spending the rest of her dream remaining uncharacteristically helpless and inactive, Steph finally leaps into action.

Let's hone in on that middle panel. It stands out, for good reason. Despite the rest of the dream taking place during the afternoon, with clear light in the sky and a cloudy purple hued sky, the sky in that second panel is pitch black and dotted with stars. And below the baby, there's this light purple grid.

It's not random, we're being shown a time and location we know. That's the exact roofing of Steph’s house, we're looking at Stephs rooftop, at night.

We've seen this time and location before, during Stephs pregnancy, way back in Robin #58, when Steph first questions whether or not she should keep her baby.

This is it, this is the moment. We saw Steph first question how she could give up her baby on this roof, and now, as her baby plummets into an identical scene, right before Stephanie wakes up, we're getting our answer.

But this isn't the only time we see this setting during Stephs pregnancy.

Secret Origins 80 Page Special

The second scene with this framing is a flashback, to a young Steph, sitting on the roof of her house alone, looking at the moon. The attached dialogue is Steph’s narration explaining how she used to dream that she’d see Batman some day. This is a scene about faith and hope. About dreams, about wanting to get saved.

So why do we see the same roof and sky again, for the third and final time during Steph’s pregnancy arc while her baby falls?

Stephanie’s dream sequence is a checklist of reasoning for why she can’t keep her baby. She is reflecting her own childhood onto the baby and she is concluding not enough has changed, she is suspecting her baby could very well be subject to the same circumstances.

And it culminates in this final moment. Crystal, while more present than ever is still not fully reliable in Steph's mind. Arthur is on the loose and as sadistic as ever. The heroes can show up, but they can’t save her baby, just like Batman couldn’t save Steph on that rooftop years and years ago. Just like then, it’s down to Steph on her own. Thats why when she lunges out for her baby, the baby is falling onto that rooftop. It’s both a reminder of the question Steph is stuck considering and an explanation for how she reaches her answer.

Because she can’t rely on anyone else, because she has to leap out, reach out, save her baby, and ultimately that look of horror as the baby falls isn’t a look of anticipation, it’s a look of utter and horrific acceptance. I don’t think Steph believes she reached her baby in time. I think Steph doesn’t think she can save her baby at all.

Steph is a very proactive character. It's strange to see her hesitate towards action, and extremely strange to see that when that action is saving someone from danger. But she's indecisive throughout her pregnancy, and she's helpless throughout her dream sequence until the very last second. Even donning the Spoiler costume doesn't help. She's helpless in this dream.

So, checklist gone through, conclusions drawn, Steph wakes up and makes the only decision she can, the decision which goes against her very nature: Stephanie lets go.

Hello, yes, I'd like to slam the entire 22 Redwall novels by Brian Jacques down onto the counter and then add several picture books, recipe books, and supplemental mini-series.

I would like to look the Internet at large in the eye when I say the following.

These books are an excellent way to see cruel people from their own points of view just as you can see the kind and heroic people's perspectives. It might royally piss you off, even, to realize that you have motivations in common with a scoundrel. That you will have sympathy for the power-hungry murderer. That you might mourn for a monster even as you're so glad the monster is dead.

And you're going to love these characters. You're going to love the camaraderie and the jokes and the squabbling. The coming-of-age stories and the parents seeking to protect their children. You're going to cry so fucking hard at some point, guaranteed, and it's going to feel so cleansing.

Also! Brian Jacques wrote these books with massive feasts and was particularly descriptive about taste. This is because he often volunteered to read to blind kids and became frustrated with how so many books relied on visual descriptions, so he made it a point to focus on a different sense.

I think every single book worm had that series that got them through shitty teenage years. For me that series was Tigers Curse by Colleen Houck. The series quite literly was my source of hope and joy during my early teen years. Was my lifeline. It's definitely YA and a little cringe to read as an adult but it's like a found friend that holds nothing but fond memories💙🖤.

What was your hard time book series?

Been thinking about how Tim and Bernard are similar when it comes to conspiracy theories and general willingness to wreck shit.

But Bernard, unlike Canon!Tim, had a really bad home family life going on. One that might have pinged Bruce's dad senses if he'd known about it.

So, really, maybe Bernard could have been the third Robin. I feel like that's not too far of a stretch to consider. It'd be interesting to see how that could have changed the story.

(Imagine Titan's Tower with Bernard as Robin. Jason would be torn; he's gotta beat the new guy up, but also Bernard is the only teen there who understands the importance of balanced meals.)

I feel like at this point we should have more fics featuring them both. I want to see Canon!Red Robin aged Tim with his boat and his boyfriend and his lower-to-middle class upbringing meet up with Fanon!Baby Tim who is a rich preteen out stalking vigilantes at night and rummaging through the trash because his parents forgot to arrange for groceries for the next month.

Bonus points if Damian immediately likes the Fanon version of Tim better. For funzies.

Cannon! Tim Drake was less “super smart fanboy kid with a camera” and more “internet message board conspiracy theorist with a wall of red string who has undiagnosed adhd and anxiety” and I think we should really be talking about that more

Yeah sure fannon Tim being a cute kid with a camera is whatever but what happened to “I watched a kids parents die and it traumatized me so hard that I hyperfixated on him to cope and now I make conspiracy theories about him and also his family”

Damn, I'm gonna hafta stop joking that Batman's a furry because after some thought, that's a disrespectful joke. Batman is clearly not a fursona and I should know better than to kink shame like that anyway.

There are lots of fics about Batman being a bat shifter or being magically turned into a bat. I think there should be more of them. And that they should feature more confused bats swimming in the wet air.