I Wish Ryuji Sakamoto Was Right.

Goro "Please invite me to have pancakes with you because I'm soooo hungry, so I can decline due to scheduling issues" Akechi, walking in on a conversation that will ruin his whole career.

It's so funny to me that he rushes out because he's busy, but not before very unsubtly suggesting that they invite him to Dome Town anyway. Sir???

Ratiorine!

I agree with this completely, but I want to add some things. I think something that I've seen people not realize is that in this framework Maruki has no care for the dead. He never cared about Kasumi, or about the sibling's bond with each other, because if he did he could have just brought Kasumi back or tried even a little bit to understand the underlying truth behind Sumire's grief stricken warped perception of her late sister. Instead, Maruki facilitates what she claims she wants, which is to become this warped perception of her sister. To match the strength she idolized. It's the same with Akechi. Akechi's wishes don't matter, Maruki wants to repay Ren for unintentionally giving him the key to accomplishing his goals, and to an extent he sees himself in Ren. Just like how Maruki didn't attempt to understand the truth behind the bond of the Yoshizawa siblings, he didn't attempt to understand the bond between Ren and Akechi. It's not enough that Akechi is alive and """"happy"""" with Ren, they had a unique dynamic fueled by their experiences, and Maruki's shallow understanding of them and what they "want" could never accurately replicate it. He thinks sanding off Akechi's jaded worldview and trauma will make him easier to love, and we know that's not true. Not to Ren. Akechi's autonomy is not granted to him because it would in Maruki's eyes, defeat the purpose of bringing him back as the perfect companion he thinks Ren always wanted but could never have.

This is a big reason why I have problems with people who claim to love shuake but also believe Maruki is right or prefer the bad ending narrative wise. It's feeding into the same toxicity Maruki does. Maruki doesn't value Akechi individually, he is only present as a ghostly giftwrapped puppet for Ren to love. People tend to fall into the trap that Maruki's reality provides, and that's that "look at this character you have grown attached to. Don't you want them happy?" So they are forced to deal with the cognitive dissonance of safe comfort for the character, or what the character would want. Anyone who claims to love Akechi and Ren together but prefers the bad ending doesn't actually care about the bond they have. It's because they play as Ren and they want his "happiness".

Adding onto this because I've yapped for this long so I might as well, I could apply this to any of the other thieves as well. Someone might spend the entire game wishing for Ann to be happy with Shiho, and then when Maruki provides that of course they would consider accepting the deal. But they seem to forget that the only reason they became attached to Ann in the first place is because of the experiences she went through in the course of the game. The Ann they grew to love is NOT the Ann that has Shiho in Maruki's reality. It's an important distinction to make.

forever thinking about royal’s bad ending. my thing with it is that maruki doesn’t necessarily give anyone what they want most, he gives them what’s most appropriate for them to want within a maruki-approved framework. iirc there’s a really interesting text sequence in the game where he just straight up changes someone’s career because they’re not “good” at it, regardless of whether that’s what they actually want. why struggle at all? ever? right?

and so ultimately i don’t think goro akechi’s greatest wish is necessarily ren. i think it’s a wish for sure, but his greatest wish is his own agency. despite any regrets he has and the fact that shido and yaldabaoth treated him like a pawn, he's generally pretty adamant about owning his choices and their consequences. he doesn't want that erased. and instead, you end up with pleasant boy™ if you take maruki’s deal. maybe maruki (incorrectly) thinks sanding off all of akechi’s rough edges will make him easier for ren to love. but the crux of it is really that maruki has to essentially lobotomize him to preserve the illusion of his perfect reality, because their ideologies are so diametrically opposed that akechi would spend every waking moment fighting back.

this isn’t to undermine ren’s importance to akechi btw — he explicitly acknowledges that he wishes they had met earlier, and there are countless moments throughout their confidant that underscore how much it means to him that they mirror each other so well. he absolutely does want more time with ren, just not under these circumstances.

and that’s also what makes ren’s choice on 2/2 doubly devastating. he knows that either way he loses akechi. and if he takes maruki’s deal, he loses him knowing that his last moments with the real akechi involved the two of them being unforgivably out of sync.

Sumire/Futaba

My friend doesn't use Tumblr, but they said something that just feels like something I would read here and it's funny so I'm sharing it.

"The butterfly effect is actually so crazy to think about, like I could’ve built a nuclear bomb and blown up Australia because in the year 200 some dude decided he wanted to eat a strawberry instead of a grape."

The... blue fire head guy and the cat guy from twst... Hades and Scar...

OH MY GOD THAT'S ONE OF MY FAVORITES

Both Selfish; you each lose 2 points

You Selfish, prev Cooperative; You gain 2 points

You Cooperative, prev Selfish; You lose 1 point

Both Cooperative; You Each gain 1.5 points

(ps make sure to say what you voted)

Making this post long so you have to scroll to see prev's tags.

Hey, so I don't want to be that guy, but when are we going to acknowledge that Akechi was right?

No, I obviously don't mean about the things he was very clearly wrong about. I'm referring to the things he says in interviews about the Phantom Thieves. I hate how many people switch up after playing through his betrayal who previously agreed with his views, because nothing he said is wrong and nothing he did changes that fact. He speaks in the TV Station on the objective facts that he should know about, and with or without the context of his form of justice those facts stay true. It's a fallacy to claim that his form of justice being universally less approved of makes the Phantom Thieves better by comparison, or discredits anything he said. I don't think the Phantom Thieves are evil, or that they should necessarily be imprisoned, but I do think that they are not morally sound. They're kids. Prior to his betrayal I think he served his purpose well, but it's easy to disregard the validity of his words when you find out that he's a murderer. With the knowledge he SHOULD have had (and that many DID have), everything he says is true. And honestly? It still can be true for basically the entire plot of the game. Mishima's confidant tests the thieves in that way. They could have changed the hearts of anyone who's not a persona user, for any personal reason. It's a slippery slope.

I'll use these three options as an example for why he's right:

"They're justice itself" is just subjective and incorrect, because justice as a concept is individualized and given how each Phantom Thief has different reasons for being one it's ridiculous for even them to say. Their first target was before they even formed a group, and Ann was ready to kill Kamoshida. The others were not even going to step in, and they were going to respect her choice either way. All the members are so different, so this is an insane claim to make.

"They're necessary" is wrong because to say they are necessary is pretty disingenuous to all "justice" that has ever happened BEFORE they existed. I don't believe that the Thieves were a necessity per say, and personally I think their actions can only be judged on a case by case basis. Some Mementos targets for example have issues that stem beyond what they have done. Now they have their desires stolen but still have the issue that pushed them to immortality in the first place, plus a shitton of guilty baggage. The Thieves only help with the atonement, but not the push. How many of those people didn't just go right back to their past behaviors? How many of them got worse in other ways? Think about Futaba, she felt so guilty for something she thought she did, she formed a palace to condemn herself to die alone. To claim the Thieves are necessary to reform society implies that their method is the most effective, and I think that's a lot to claim for something they don't understand.

"They do more than the cops" I almost agree with. Legally the police in Japan in this game anyway (yes I'm aware it extends to reality in many ways, but I'm referring to just the game right now) are corrupt and flawed for the most part, but the thing I don't agree with is that this makes the Thieves a better alternative. They're not. For the same reason Yoshizawa says later, the Thieves can only do so much as vigilantes, and to imply that society should rely on these faceless nameless flawed people to fix society is not any better than what they have now. Especially with the method being unknown, potentially unsafe, and easily exploitable. I cannot be the only one who if the Phantom Thieves were real, would be extremely alarmed by the prospect of a group of vigilantes "changing hearts" right? It's so vague, and the pattern is dystopian. At least police methods are familiar

What I'm saying is that they're kids, and it's kind of insane that this game places Akechi as the narrative foil for the Thieves in their message and then makes it so easy to disregard because "he's an assassin so how could he know anything about justice". The Thieves don't either, and Ann was nearly a murderer. If the bar is "don't commit murder when you're infiltrating someone's mind" then it's far too low. I wouldn't trust a group of adults with this power to reform society, even less a group of teenage vigilantes. I'm 19, and I find this odd. And Strikers frames them as even more righteous, and it bugs me even more in that game. At least Royal has the third semester to give a bit more nuance to how big of a responsibility Ren was given, but that's also very frequently misinterpreted.

I love this game, and I love this fandom, and I have thoughts that get weird and ranty. I apologize, but I hope you all found this as interesting as I did.

Hahaha I would never do that ( @checkerstheboard @avendoki @turretangel What character do I remind you guys of? 😊)

my friends open drawing requests and i bow my head with shame and avoid eye contact as i ask for the character they Already Knew I Would Ask For

Headcanoning Persona 5 characters Mariokart mains, because I'm funny and I have way too much time to think about dumb things

Ren mains Shy Guy, usually green because he loves Kakyoin from JJBA. Mute City F-Zero is also his favorite Mariokart 8 track because of this.

Ryuji once said "I bet Ann plays Princess Peach", and Ann was so offended by the assumption that every time she intentionally takes Bowser before Ryuji can, so he has to pick his second favorite (Donkey Kong) instead. She doesn't even dislike Peach necessarily, she just never played Peach and was feeling petty.

Now, technically Ryuji could always just pick Dry Bowser- but unfortunately for him, Makoto always picks Dry Bowser, so he has no choice but to pick Bowser Jr, and he would rather just keep Donkey Kong.

Akechi doesn't really play Mariokart unless he's roped in by the group, so he never really had a main. The others kept throwing out suggestions for him to pick, and he kept shooting them down for various contrived reasons, only giving in because Futaba was the loudest and most obnoxious one shouting "Pick Yoshi". That's the day he became the Yoshi main.

Yusuke mains King Boo, and was extremely baffled and confused when Futaba blurted out "only sluts play King Boo" (Ann couldn't help but laugh at that).

Futaba would only play either Luigi or Waluigi, depending on her mood. Either way, she's a memelord about it.

Haru would be Daisy, because she's iconic and also they're very similar. Makoto pointed it out and Haru has picked Daisy every time ever since.

Morgana always picks Mario, but not just any Mario. Specifically Tanooki Mario. Everyone gave him a look, but he acted like this was perfectly normal behavior. If anyone brings up the resemblance, he will get extremely defensive.

Sumire almost exclusively played Rosalina, until one day she decided to pick Toadette out of nowhere. The group was kind of surprised, and she explained that she thinks it's cute, and never went back.

Zenkichi keeps refusing to play, and only gives in because Sumire is a sweetheart who suggests that he match her and pick Toad. He does, and it's funny as hell.

And finally, Sophia would pick Princess Peach, specifically Cat Peach with the pink car because it matches the colors. Before that she was just going to make a Mii of herself reluctantly, but Ann showed her Cat Peach and her eyes just lit up.

Basically:

Ren: Green Shy Guy

Ryuji: Bowser Donkey Kong

Ann: Bowser

Makoto: Dry Bowser

Akechi: Yoshi

Yusuke: King Boo

Futaba: (Wa)Luigi

Haru: Daisy

Morgana: Tanooki Mario

Sumire: Rosalina Toadette

Zenkichi: Toad

Sophia: Cat Peach