Y'know Those People Who Try To Be Funny And Always Fail, But They Sometimes Say The Funniest Things That

Got banned from the Little Ceasers. Call that a little Cease-and-Desisters

Makoto & Haru!

Both Selfish; you each lose 2 points

You Selfish, prev Cooperative; You gain 2 points

You Cooperative, prev Selfish; You lose 1 point

Both Cooperative; You Each gain 1.5 points

(ps make sure to say what you voted)

Making this post long so you have to scroll to see prev's tags.

Hear me out- I was thinking about how in Strikers all the Thieves have different outfits, and notably Makoto seems to have become much more comfortable in her own skin and expressing herself that way. She's literally wearing a crop pleather jacket, and she ROCKS it. So what I'm saying is, if Haru tried pastel goth, she would be sold. She would be immediately and irreversibly sold and would never go back.

The funniest thing about this to me is thinking about this with makoharu. Whether or not you ship it, it's still funny to me that it's literally just:

Punk biker butch lesbian and her pastel goth plant girlfriend who chops firewood as a hobby and is also secretly a butch.

Like- they are practically a lesbian stereotype checklist, it's so funny to me. I love them so much

Realized something so funny about Yusuke while playing Strikers.

1. He suggests that the Phantom Thieves go to Kyoto on their vacation because he really wants an art tour, and he immediately gets vetoed. They then plan a barbecue, and he gets excited for that but then plans change when the Metaverse returns and they go on their road trip, so he gets deprived of that too. But every single time their vacation gets brought up he acts like these things are going to happen. "What about our Kyoto excursion" "our barbecue extravaganza" he is in his own little world where the Thieves listen to him. They actually do eventually go to Kyoto and he STILL doesn't get his art tour.

2. Zenkichi tells them that Alice Hiiragi went to the same school as the Thieves and Yusuke pipes up like "SHE WENT TO KOSEI HIGH??" Even though he is the only member of the Thieves who didn't go to Shujin Academy.

3. The scene where they discuss how they're going to go on their road trip without a vehicle and he announces that he has money like it's HIS MOMENT. Like it's the moment he's been waiting for his whole life, and Futaba responds "keep your snack money, Inari". Later he makes a comment about how he's gone from "rags to riches".

Every single case of this he gets the dramatic cut-in thing, so what I'm saying is Yusuke is convinced he's the main character through all of Strikers. Like he goes through the motions assuming the world will bend at his whimsy and the other Thieves just sigh and move on.

@troubled-bog-witch I agree with this! What they did under a deadline that had the people they're around in danger—like Haru, Shiho, Yusuke, etc—those were all cases where their use of an alternate world full of danger that they barely understand the effects of is a valid tool to save those lives. But to claim that this is something they can, or rather should use to reform society as a whole is a very impulsive decision. It is worse in Strikers, where they are faced with a completely new form of this world and they immediately jump to using that to reform society too. They don't even think about the potential dangers of Jails, and yet they see their actions as morally sound from the start. This gets worse later when- actually, spoilers for Strikers

It gets revealed that the Jails are maliciously created, and that this isn't actually a resurgence of the Metaverse they knew. This is a tool being used to control people, the very thing people implied the Phantom Thieves could do. The Metaverse always has been exploitable, and this game proves this. In emergencies where people's lives are in danger, when safety is most important, changing hearts is effective. But these kids are in way over their head, and I think they (especially Ren) got extremely lucky in how things ended. Insane responsibility to be placed on Ren by the way, I don't see many people talk about how these teenagers were the final force against the end of the world multiple times.

Hey, so I don't want to be that guy, but when are we going to acknowledge that Akechi was right?

No, I obviously don't mean about the things he was very clearly wrong about. I'm referring to the things he says in interviews about the Phantom Thieves. I hate how many people switch up after playing through his betrayal who previously agreed with his views, because nothing he said is wrong and nothing he did changes that fact. He speaks in the TV Station on the objective facts that he should know about, and with or without the context of his form of justice those facts stay true. It's a fallacy to claim that his form of justice being universally less approved of makes the Phantom Thieves better by comparison, or discredits anything he said. I don't think the Phantom Thieves are evil, or that they should necessarily be imprisoned, but I do think that they are not morally sound. They're kids. Prior to his betrayal I think he served his purpose well, but it's easy to disregard the validity of his words when you find out that he's a murderer. With the knowledge he SHOULD have had (and that many DID have), everything he says is true. And honestly? It still can be true for basically the entire plot of the game. Mishima's confidant tests the thieves in that way. They could have changed the hearts of anyone who's not a persona user, for any personal reason. It's a slippery slope.

I'll use these three options as an example for why he's right:

"They're justice itself" is just subjective and incorrect, because justice as a concept is individualized and given how each Phantom Thief has different reasons for being one it's ridiculous for even them to say. Their first target was before they even formed a group, and Ann was ready to kill Kamoshida. The others were not even going to step in, and they were going to respect her choice either way. All the members are so different, so this is an insane claim to make.

"They're necessary" is wrong because to say they are necessary is pretty disingenuous to all "justice" that has ever happened BEFORE they existed. I don't believe that the Thieves were a necessity per say, and personally I think their actions can only be judged on a case by case basis. Some Mementos targets for example have issues that stem beyond what they have done. Now they have their desires stolen but still have the issue that pushed them to immortality in the first place, plus a shitton of guilty baggage. The Thieves only help with the atonement, but not the push. How many of those people didn't just go right back to their past behaviors? How many of them got worse in other ways? Think about Futaba, she felt so guilty for something she thought she did, she formed a palace to condemn herself to die alone. To claim the Thieves are necessary to reform society implies that their method is the most effective, and I think that's a lot to claim for something they don't understand.

"They do more than the cops" I almost agree with. Legally the police in Japan in this game anyway (yes I'm aware it extends to reality in many ways, but I'm referring to just the game right now) are corrupt and flawed for the most part, but the thing I don't agree with is that this makes the Thieves a better alternative. They're not. For the same reason Yoshizawa says later, the Thieves can only do so much as vigilantes, and to imply that society should rely on these faceless nameless flawed people to fix society is not any better than what they have now. Especially with the method being unknown, potentially unsafe, and easily exploitable. I cannot be the only one who if the Phantom Thieves were real, would be extremely alarmed by the prospect of a group of vigilantes "changing hearts" right? It's so vague, and the pattern is dystopian. At least police methods are familiar

What I'm saying is that they're kids, and it's kind of insane that this game places Akechi as the narrative foil for the Thieves in their message and then makes it so easy to disregard because "he's an assassin so how could he know anything about justice". The Thieves don't either, and Ann was nearly a murderer. If the bar is "don't commit murder when you're infiltrating someone's mind" then it's far too low. I wouldn't trust a group of adults with this power to reform society, even less a group of teenage vigilantes. I'm 19, and I find this odd. And Strikers frames them as even more righteous, and it bugs me even more in that game. At least Royal has the third semester to give a bit more nuance to how big of a responsibility Ren was given, but that's also very frequently misinterpreted.

I love this game, and I love this fandom, and I have thoughts that get weird and ranty. I apologize, but I hope you all found this as interesting as I did.

(un)happy doomed yaoi day to those who celebrate <33

coincidentally its also snowing today. for the first time this season. funny how that worked out

angsty web weave coming later i need to tweak it a lil

Hey, so I don't want to be that guy, but when are we going to acknowledge that Akechi was right?

No, I obviously don't mean about the things he was very clearly wrong about. I'm referring to the things he says in interviews about the Phantom Thieves. I hate how many people switch up after playing through his betrayal who previously agreed with his views, because nothing he said is wrong and nothing he did changes that fact. He speaks in the TV Station on the objective facts that he should know about, and with or without the context of his form of justice those facts stay true. It's a fallacy to claim that his form of justice being universally less approved of makes the Phantom Thieves better by comparison, or discredits anything he said. I don't think the Phantom Thieves are evil, or that they should necessarily be imprisoned, but I do think that they are not morally sound. They're kids. Prior to his betrayal I think he served his purpose well, but it's easy to disregard the validity of his words when you find out that he's a murderer. With the knowledge he SHOULD have had (and that many DID have), everything he says is true. And honestly? It still can be true for basically the entire plot of the game. Mishima's confidant tests the thieves in that way. They could have changed the hearts of anyone who's not a persona user, for any personal reason. It's a slippery slope.

I'll use these three options as an example for why he's right:

"They're justice itself" is just subjective and incorrect, because justice as a concept is individualized and given how each Phantom Thief has different reasons for being one it's ridiculous for even them to say. Their first target was before they even formed a group, and Ann was ready to kill Kamoshida. The others were not even going to step in, and they were going to respect her choice either way. All the members are so different, so this is an insane claim to make.

"They're necessary" is wrong because to say they are necessary is pretty disingenuous to all "justice" that has ever happened BEFORE they existed. I don't believe that the Thieves were a necessity per say, and personally I think their actions can only be judged on a case by case basis. Some Mementos targets for example have issues that stem beyond what they have done. Now they have their desires stolen but still have the issue that pushed them to immortality in the first place, plus a shitton of guilty baggage. The Thieves only help with the atonement, but not the push. How many of those people didn't just go right back to their past behaviors? How many of them got worse in other ways? Think about Futaba, she felt so guilty for something she thought she did, she formed a palace to condemn herself to die alone. To claim the Thieves are necessary to reform society implies that their method is the most effective, and I think that's a lot to claim for something they don't understand.

"They do more than the cops" I almost agree with. Legally the police in Japan in this game anyway (yes I'm aware it extends to reality in many ways, but I'm referring to just the game right now) are corrupt and flawed for the most part, but the thing I don't agree with is that this makes the Thieves a better alternative. They're not. For the same reason Yoshizawa says later, the Thieves can only do so much as vigilantes, and to imply that society should rely on these faceless nameless flawed people to fix society is not any better than what they have now. Especially with the method being unknown, potentially unsafe, and easily exploitable. I cannot be the only one who if the Phantom Thieves were real, would be extremely alarmed by the prospect of a group of vigilantes "changing hearts" right? It's so vague, and the pattern is dystopian. At least police methods are familiar

What I'm saying is that they're kids, and it's kind of insane that this game places Akechi as the narrative foil for the Thieves in their message and then makes it so easy to disregard because "he's an assassin so how could he know anything about justice". The Thieves don't either, and Ann was nearly a murderer. If the bar is "don't commit murder when you're infiltrating someone's mind" then it's far too low. I wouldn't trust a group of adults with this power to reform society, even less a group of teenage vigilantes. I'm 19, and I find this odd. And Strikers frames them as even more righteous, and it bugs me even more in that game. At least Royal has the third semester to give a bit more nuance to how big of a responsibility Ren was given, but that's also very frequently misinterpreted.

I love this game, and I love this fandom, and I have thoughts that get weird and ranty. I apologize, but I hope you all found this as interesting as I did.

Hahaha I would never do that ( @checkerstheboard @avendoki @turretangel What character do I remind you guys of? 😊)

my friends open drawing requests and i bow my head with shame and avoid eye contact as i ask for the character they Already Knew I Would Ask For

not pictured here: the rest of the Phantom's crew groaning loudly and walking away before they have to witness whatever these two are going on about now

(have all you pirate AU lovers read @tzviaariella's Brigverse series yet because AAAAAAA)