You Know What Rick Should Have Done To Make Athena More Sympathetic?

I feel disappointed that Rick implied that Hazel and Nico were related to the most infamous Nazi and didn't care to address it. Or that Camp Jupiter was allied with the confederates and all Hazel does is go "Not cool".

Did he not want to think about how fucked up that is?

This is a case of Rick intertwining real life history with his fictional world and fucking it up big time.

It's absolutely horrible to make the Greek Gods responsible for World War 2. It's even more digusting to have the Nazis be children of the Greek Gods. It's a huge insult to Greeks, their culture, their history (The Greeks fought AGAINST THE NAZIS!) and their culture.

I don't know much about the fandom history or PJO history, but I think that he retconned it to avoid backlash.

The fact that Camp Jupiter allied with the Confederates is also extremely disgusting. Hazel definitely should have been horrified and more disgusted. And making Hitler's half-siblings the type of people that he hated was even more fucked up, though it could have been interesting if it was talked about.

My best guess is that he didn't want to address the implications of how fucked up that was, which was why he retconned it and didn't talk about it again.

Sometimes I wonder what goes on in his mind. I guess that it's just the infamous American arrogance, especially from an old white Christian man.

Can we talk about how much the Aphrodite kids are a wasted/lost potential? How RR made them vain, vapid, mean and only useless pretty faces until Piper came? (Which is one of the characters I dislike in the books for all her internalized misogyny and the way she judged her siblings and cabinmates before even getting to know them properly). Aphrodite was worshiped as a goddess of war in her own right. Give me children of Aphrodite who are as beautiful as they are deadly, they wield their beauty both as a shield and as a sword. Give me Aphrodite kids that are so deeply loving and loyal towards each other, willing to move mountains and brave the harshest storms to keep their loved ones safe. Give me cabin 10 members being the ones that other campers go to because they know there will be no judgement there.

Can we talk about how much the Aphrodite kids are a wasted/lost potential? How RR made them vain, vapid, mean and only useless pretty faces until Piper came?

Aphrodite was worshipped as a goddess of war in her own right. Give me children of Aphrodite who are as beautiful as they are deadly, they wield their beauty both as a shield and as a sword. Give me Aphrodite kids that are so deeply loving and loyal towards each other, willing to move mountains and brave the harshest storms to keep their loved ones safe. Give me cabin 10 members being the ones that other campers go to because they know there will be no judgement there.

Exactly! Your vision for them is amazing. Of course, if they had had a writer who actually cared about fleshing them out, they could have been amazing, but unfortunately, Rick is too much of a misogynist to think past 'pink, pretty clothes, concerned about looks' = 'vain, shallow, conceited'.

The fact that his main female characters are able to look good without trying is such a cliche. A girl who looks good because she takes care of herself and is concerned about her looks (though not to the point of vanity) is much more interesting than 'Effortless Without Trying'-which is present ad nauseam in 2000s YA literature.

A son of Aphrodite would be extremely interesting to read about. How would he deal with his feminine side when he was a boy? How would others have seen and treated him? We all talk about masculine girls and feeling uncomfortable in masculinity, but talking about a feminine boy and his feminity would have been so interesting, especially in the PJOverse where Aphrodite is seen as weak. How differently is he treated from his sisters? Do they expect him to be tougher or weak just like them? How does he feel about his heritage and his mother?

Wasted potential, though we have fanfiction, discussions and headcanons, so there's that.

(Piper is one of the characters I dislike in the books for all her internalized misogyny and the way she judged her siblings and cabinmates before even getting to know them properly).

I do think that it's unfair to dislike Piper for that because she was raised in Hollywood, where it would be easy to take on such a mindset and lose yourself in it. Besides, the girls that were bullying her (both at the Wilderness School and Drew Tanaka) were all pink and feminine, so it would be easy for her to dislike them and think that they were shallow and stupid.

I'll have to reread the Lost Hero to look at her arc and how it was handled, so I'll add my thoughts after this happens.

On an unrelated note, I wish that we had gotten Piper and Drew making up. The fact that two teenage girls of color fight over a white guy and presumably don't make up again is just so aggravating to me, because female solidarity and platonic relationships are absolutely wonderful to read about.

Vivienne and Madoc angst part two

She had called him daddy on the day of the coronation. She had called him father when shooting bolts at him. Sometimes she acknowledged him, sometimes she acted like he was a stranger. In a way, however, they WERE strangers. Madoc realized with a start that he didn't know what her favorite color or foods were. He didn't know what clothes she liked to wear, he didn't know what she did for a living, he didn't know what music she liked to listen to. Well, she had never stayed for long. She was always off to some place, even when he tried to get her to stay. It wasn't HIS fault. 'Oh, yeah, look at this park! It's my favorite-Lincoln Park. My dad used to take me here all the time.' she said. Madoc raised his eyebrows. What? Her father? He'd never- Justin. Justin. My father. Justin.

It suddenly crashed into him. That even though he was Vivienne's biological father, the man who had raised her was Justin Duarte, and then he'd died, and there was no other man, because his one biological daughter had always avoided him, avoided acknowledging their bond. 'I loved playing catch with him. And when I was tired, he would take me for ice cream. Vanilla ice cream-my favorite. While Mom took care of Jude and Taryn.' Madoc bit his lip. He was very uncomfortable now. The car was very cramped. He wanted to get out and run away. (Run away? How odd. He never ran away from things. Emotional troubles-he pushed them down, not ran away.) Vivienne swerved to avoid accidentally running a dog down and cursed. (Push down, run away. Run down, push away). He had never apologized to them for killing their parents. His apologies came in the form of raising them as his own, insisting they live like the Gentry Faeries. Teaching them swordplay and strategies. Giving them ball gowns and faerie food. 'I don't really like killing. It's a you thing.' she said. 'Of course, you wouldn't know anything else, would you? You can only kill, pathetic monster.' 'Vivienne.' he said. 'I've had enough. Stop this.' She snorted. 'Of course. Run away from emotionally charged conversations. Always the Madoc I knew.' When she had yelled at him, about Justin and Eva, he had always yelled back and told her to shut up. Walked away. Distracted himself. He never cried. (Though he'd blinked quite rapidly when standing near Eva's cooling body. Very rapidly, more than usual.) 'I never-' he said, then stopped. He couldn't speak. Why couldn't he speak? (That was a lie. He couldn't lie.) 'You never WHAT?' Vivienne yelled. The car was going to fast for his liking now. 'Never WHAT, Madoc? Never wanted to talk about them? Yeah, you never DID acknowledge what you did to us.' 'I have you everything, but you never took it.' 'No you didn't. You took what you wanted from my mother and then took even more from the three of us. Took everything from the three of us.' 'Vivienne, please-' 'NO.' she screamed. The car slammed to a halt and Madoc lurched forward. 'Get out.' He blinked. 'What?' 'Get. OUT!' she screamed, blinking back tears. 'I don't know why I took you on. I never win. Just get out and find your way back. I don't care.' He sighed and got out, staring at the car zooming away morosely. And then he realized where he was. The house. The house where it all happened. He grit his teeth. VIVIENNE! Then it hit him-Eva would've done something like that. A silly, lighthearted prank-well, not really, but she would have done it in a lighter manner. He remembered Eva and her reddish brown hair streaming behind her as she squinted her eyes and threw her head back when laughing. She had been a perfect mix of Jude and Taryn-Jude's daring and cunning and Taryn's soft femininity. He knew that he was so dedicated to the twins because they reminded her of him-more specifically Jude, who could have been an adopted Vivienne. His own Vivienne, however, had his eyes and ears, but she also had Eva's brown hair and a lighter shade of her skin. And now Madoc really saw some Eva in Vivienne-her snark, her boldness, her carefree nature. And he wondered how he hadn't seen it before.

You did NOT just compare Annabeth and Gabe to each other.

I swear to god you anti Percabeths are the dumbest, most incomprehent people I've ever met. I seriously think you should just kys honestly the world would be a better place off without you.

No I don't think it's wrong you're anti Percabeth so yeah

I did, in fact, compare Annabeth to Gabe!

I don't think that Annabeth is as bad as Gabe (nope nope nope) but I do think that she's very toxic and that she hurts Percy. I think that they need to break up and heal alone. Her lack of character growth is very frustrating.

The lack of specificity in your death threat is annoying. If you do want me to kill myself, you're going to have to be more particular-the necessary tools, how long it'll take, how painful it'll be, etc. I take painless methods only.

I do think that not much would be changed in the world if I killed myself, but it would probably be a somewhat worse off place without me because I have people who love and care for me and I'm not doing anything bad to the world, so there's that.

When I came into this fandom, people told me that Percabeth stans would be rabid and hateful, and I don't think that's the case for the majority of them, seeing as that period already passed and they seem more mature now (or maybe it's just Tumblr) but you seem to be an exception. I wonder if you're the same anon as last time? I'll never know.

In any case, I'd like to thank you for your use of better grammar than the last one, though your not adding a period at the end of the last sentence irks me. I'd also prefer it if you didn't use the abbreviation of kys and said kill yourself. I dislike it when people use bad grammar, though that's just a personal preference.

Your morality is interesting-I forget the exact term for it, but you think it's bad to tell your side to kill themselves but have no problem telling the opposite side to kill themselves just because..............they're your enemies. Which is a terrible reason. Not surprising from a hardcore Percabeth stan, though.

I don't tend to think of people whom I disagree with as automatically bad people-that is a very harmful mentality to have. I have fought with some people, but they're not bad people-we just disagree on certain things and I know that they produce great content and have good morals just like me. Please adopt this mentality and the world will be slightly better, because every change is a change, no matter how big or small.

Anyway, I will be the bigger person and I hope that you sleep well tonight! Au revoir!

Another day, another post of defending Annabeth from haters with stupid reasons. Which is ironic, considering that I've made my fair share of anti Annabeth Chase posts (Though I'm neutral on her).

SOM (pg 3) - I thought I saw a shadow flicker across the glass -- a humanlike shape.

SOM (pg 7) - As I stepped outside, I glanced at the brownstone building across the street. Just for a second I saw a dark shape in the morning sunlight -- a human silhouette against the brick wall, a shadow that belonged to no one. Then it rippled and vanished.

SOM (pg 23) - [Percy realizes Annabeth has been stalking him] “Pretty much all morning.” She sheathed her bronze knife. “I’ve been trying to find a good time to talk to you, but you were never alone.” [ … ] “There’s no time to explain!” she snapped, though she looked a little red-faced herself.

Annabeth stalking Percy in his apartment and school was weird, but it's not mean-rather, that it's creepy and she should have apologised for it (for the trigger-happy Annabeth stans, I don't think Annabeth should apologise for every little single thing, but this was weird and creepy and she definitely should have apologised for stalking someone.)

SOM (pg 32) - [Percy asking about the Gray Sisters Taxi] “That’s outside their service area,” she said like that should be obvious.

There's nothing about this that's mean, only Annabeth telling Percy something in a manner of tone, and we know that he's insecure and an unreliable narrator. She wasn't deliberately or accidentally being mean here either.

SOM (pg 77) - [Percy tries to tell Annabeth about his dream with Grover] She perked up when I mentioned Grover, but when I told her what he’d said, she seemed to get distant again, suspicious. “You’re trying to distract me,” she decided. [ … ] “Oh right! Like Grover would just happen to stumble across the one thing that could save the camp!” [ … ] She rolled her eyes, “Go back to your chariot, Percy.”

There's nothing mean about this. It's understandable for Annabeth to think what she does and Percy isn't affected by this either. You're just being overly sensitive.

SOM (pg 86) - [Percy references the movie version of a myth] Annabeth rolled her eyes. “Oh my gods, Percy! You are so hopeless.”

This isn't mean and Annabeth's not trying to be mean here either. It's a normal thing to do as friends. And the way she says he's hopeless isn't mean either. It's one thing to tell someone that they're hopeless because they don't have good grades and aren't good at school and another thing to tell someone they're hopeless because of what Percy did here.

Also, digressing here-seeing the movie version of a myth is stupid. Annabeth didn't call Percy stupid, just hopeless, but it is still stupid.

SOM (pg 121) - As we came up the stairs to deck thirteen, where the admiralty suite was supposed to be, Annabeth hissed, “Hide!” and shoved us into a supply closet.

When in this scene is she ever mean? She's simply shoving all of them into a supply closet, which is perfectly normal. And in case you disliked the shoved part- it was necessary in this case. It wasn't physically violent. It's one thing to shove someone because you're angry with them, but why she shoved them in this scene was a good reason. There's nothing wrong with it.

SOM (pg 140) Annabeth glared at me, and I started to wish that I hadn't asked her this while she was holding a knife.

Annabeth glaring at Percy isn't mean, especially since he just asked her a very personal question, but I do think that the sentence that came afterwards- 'I started to wish that I hadn't asked her about this while she was holding a knife'-was weird and shouldn't have been written.

SOM (pg 183) 'Come on, Seaweed Brain.' she said.

There's nothing mean about this. The nickname isn't derogatory, it's an inside joke, and it's fine at this point.

SOM (pg 197) - [Percy rescuing Annabeth from sirens] She kicked me in the face, but I held on. Annabeth pummeled and kicked me, making it hard to concentrate.

Annabeth was under the influence of the siren song-of course she wasn't going to act normally! Also, Percy was pulling her away from her dream. It's not surpising that she did what she did, but ultimately, it had no effects in the long run. It's not the same as the judo flip or the gut punch or the shin kick or hitting him in the Staff of Hermes. It's not mean.

SOM (pg 199) She rolled her eyes. 'No, Seaweed Brain'.

There's nothing mean about rolling your eyes. I don't know if you're just really sensitive or you have it out for Annabeth. Also, Seaweed Brain is just a friendly nickname at this point. There's nothing wrong with it.

SOM (pg 236) - [Percy sends Clarisse with the fleece] “Percy,” Annabeth said, “that was so insane.” [ … ] “Percy is too nice,” Annabeth grumbled.

Percy's plan was insane. There's nothing mean about saying that.

Annabeth saying Percy is too nice isn't mean. I'm honestly just shaking my head in disbelief at this point. You're just taking sentences that she's said and calling them mean. I'm convinced that if Annabeth so much as exhaled too loudly, you'd call her mean.

Also, regarding the times Annabeth was mean to Tyson-of course she was going to be! You can toss around shouldn't have been all you'd like, but at the end of the day, realistically speaking, she was never going to have reacted well to a Cyclops.

Also, she got over it. She overcame her fear of them and is friends with Tyson-she even enlisted his help to bake Percy a blue birthday cupcake in TLO!

People like you are why so many people think Annabeth antis are ridiculous fools who are too sensitive. There are valid reasons to dislike and hate her (because no, the two are not the same) but what you're putting in here is just bullshit. You want Annabeth to smile and nod and praise Percy all the time instead of being realistic and imperfect. Please stop this and hate on her for valid reasons if you really want to hate on her.

Every Time Annabeth is Mean to Percy in the Riordanverse

This is something that I’ve been considering writing for a while but didn’t particularly want to put the work into until I was rereading The Titan’s Curse and came across a very specific line that went “She punched me in the gut.” I was so consumed with rage that I immediately began to reread the whole series and marked down every single instance that Annabeth was a dick to Percy. 

One thing to note is that I’ve marked down every instance of Annabeth calling Percy “seaweed brain” as being mean. Friendly reminder that her nickname for Percy means “stupid” and has always meant stupid and will always mean stupid and that just because he’s used to it by now, doesn’t make it okay. 

On that note, this also turned into me writing down every time someone other than Annabeth insults Percy’s intelligence just because I was curious.

Without further ado, I present to you, The Lightning Thief.

(Alternating colors for easier reading)

TLT (pg 57) -  [interrogation of Percy]   The girl with curly blond hair hovered over me, smirking as she scraped drips off my chin with the spoon. [ … ] Somebody knocked on the door, and the girl quickly filled my mouth with pudding.

TLT (pg 64) - [describing Annabeth’s eyes] but intimidating, too, as if she were analyzing the best way to take me down in a fight. 

TLT (pg 64) - “You drool when you sleep.”

TLT (pg 83) - When we reached her, she looked me over critically, like she was still thinking about how much I drooled. 

TLT (pg 85) - She saw me looking, and her expression hardened again.

TLT (pg 85-86) - She grabbed my wrist and dragged me outside. I could hear the kids of cabin eleven laughing behind me. When we were a few feet away, Annabeth said, “Jackson, you have to do better than that.” [ … ] She rolled her eyes and mumbled under her breath, “I can’t believe I thought you were the one.” 

TLT (pg 86) - [Percy is annoyed] “Don’t talk like that!” Annabeth told me. “You know how many kids at this camp wish they’d had your chance?” 

TLT (pg 89) - [Clarisse is hazing Percy] Annabeth looked pained, but she did stay out of it. 

TLT (pg 90) - [Clarisse is hazing Percy] Annabeth stood in the corner, watching through her fingers. 

TLT (pg 92) - Annabeth stared at me. I couldn’t tell whether she was just grossed out or angry at me for dousing her.

TLT (pg 93) - “I’ve got training to do,” Annabeth said flatly. “Dinner’s at seven-thirty. Just follow your cabin to the mess hall.” [Percy apologizes] “Whatever.” 

TLT (pg 123) - [Annabeth sets Percy up to be bait for Clarisse, Percy confronts her] Annabeth shrugged. “I told you. Athena always, always has a plan.” 

TLT (pg 128) - Annabeth still taught me Greek in the mornings, but she seemed distracted. Every time I said something, she scowled at me, as if I’d just poked her between the eyes. 

TLT (pg 147) - [Annabeth has volunteered for the quest] “I’ve been waiting a long time for a quest, seaweed brain,” she said. “Athena is no fan of Poseidon, but if you’re going to save the world, I’m the best person to keep you from messing up.” 

TLT (pg 157) - [Percy is being optimistic] She gave me an irritated look. “It’s bad luck to talk that way, seaweed brain.” [Percy asks why Annabeth hates him] “I don’t hate you. [Percy disagrees] “Look…we’re just not supposed to get along, okay? Our parents are rivals.” 

TLT (pg 169) - She was silent for a few more steps. “It’s just that if you died…aside from the fact that it would really suck for you, it would mean the quest was over. This may be my only chance to see the real world.” 

TLT (pg 173) - [Percy lies to Medusa] “Your head is full of kelp.” 

TLT (pg 185) - [Percy doesn’t know the myths] Annabeth flashed me an irritated look. [explanation of the myth] Annabeth straightened. In a bad imitation of my voice she said: “It’s just a photo, Annabeth. What’s the harm?” 

TLT (pg 194) - [Annabeth wakes Percy after a nightmare] “Well,” Annabeth said, “the zombie lives.” 

TLT (pg 217) - [After Percy jumps off the Gateway Arch] Annabeth stood beside him, trying to look angry, but even she seemed relieved to see me. “We can’t leave you alone for five minutes! What happened?” 

TLT (pg 234) - [Percy asking Annabeth to go with him to get Ares’ shield] “Are you kidding?” She looked at me as if I’d just dropped from the moon. [ … ] “Me, go with you to the…the ‘Thrill Ride of Love’? How embarrassing is that? What if somebody saw me?” 

TLT (pg 234) - [Percy picks up Aphrodite’s scarf] Annabeth ripped it out of my hand and stuffed it in her pocket. “Oh no you don’t. Stay away from that love magic.” [ … ] “Just get the shield, seaweed brain.” 

TLT (pg 239) - [Percy has a plan] “Are you crazy?” 

TLT (pg 244) - [Percy backtalking Ares] Annabeth said, “That was not smart, Percy.” 

TLT (pg 251) - [Discussing what side they’ll pick] “Because you’re my friend, seaweed brain. Anymore stupid questions?” 

TLT (pg 257) - [Grover can only bless wild animals] “So it would only work on Percy,” Annabeth reasoned.

TLT (pg 263) - [Percy trying to get Annabeth’s attention at the Lotus Hotel] She looked up, annoyed. “What?” [ … ] “Hey!” She screamed and hit me, but nobody else even bothered looking at us. 

TLT (pg 282) - [Percy saves Grover and Annabeth from Crusty] “Be faster next time.” 

TLT (pg 370) - [Percy wakes up after almost dying] “You idiot,” Annabeth said.

TLT (pg 374) - She pursed her lips. “You won’t try anything stupid during the school year, will you? At least…not without sending me an Iris-Message?” 

TLT (pg 374) “Take care, seaweed brain.” 

TLT total number of times Percy is called stupid: 10 

TLT number of times Annabeth calls Percy stupid: 7

TLT number of times others call Percy stupid: Gabe (1). Grover (1). Thalia (1). 

Every day, I’ll reblog this post with the next book so keep an eye out for that.

There's one thing I'm curious to know-

Did the Ancient Greeks view their gods as moral paragons?

Because they did weird stuff, but it was supposed to be symbolic of their nature, and anyway, society had different standards back then so what they did wasn't looked upon as bad.

So did they aspire to be like the gods in terms of morality?

No offense, just a question from me. Sorry if this is odd in any way.

@margaretkart

@katerinaaqu

Have you noticed how both Percy Jackson and Cardan are often characterised as dumb and Cardan weak because they love their significant others? I think this is some weird sort of misogyny because 'only weak men will love these women' when that's simply not true!

Tell me if I'm crazy lol

You're not crazy. This is a real phenomenon that needs to stop.

The PJO fandom tends to dumb down Percy a lot and hype up Annabeth, when in reality it is Percy who comes up with brilliant strategies and fights very well. It seems to me that people think Percy is foolish and/or impulsive because he doesn't communicate his plans very well.

It's frustrating to read canon PJO and then go to the fandom PJO and see how much Percy is dumbed down. Even canonically, Percy is put down a lot-unfortunately, I think this is because Rick is influenced by the fandom, which he should stop.

In fact, Annabeth would have died without Percy. LOTS of people would have died without Percy.

Thankfully, there are many people who DON'T dumb Percy down, like @cynthiav06, @hermesmyplatonicbeloved and other people-I forgot the blogs, tell me if you want to be tagged.

Check out the blogs I mentioned above if you want Real Percy, not dumb Percy who's not even real.

And this happens with Cardan too.

All right-I will say it again and again.

REAL CARDAN IS NOT A DUMB, HELPLESS UWU POOKIE!

HE IS POWERFUL. HE IS SMART. HE IS CUNNING AND CAN RUN AN ENTIRE KINGDOM WITHOUT JUDE OR MADOC.

I think most of the TFOTA fandom forget that Cardan did, in fact, run the kingdom without Jude or Madoc between and at the beginning of The Queen of Nothing!

And he's no helpless pookie. Does ANYONE remember the scene in TWK where the sea mermaids and their retinue come and read the poem that's a threat in disguise?

Does anyone remember how Cardan reacted? I DON'T THINK THEY DO!

He did NOT whimper or look to Jude for help. Jude DID NOT step up and deal with things directly.

Cardan dealt with it. He gave a clever response and effectively dealt with it while remaining powerful in the eyes of his subjects. Jude herself notes how powerful he looks in that scene.

And his meeting with Orlagh? He looks and feels regal and intimidating, like a true ruler. He saves his kingdom from war, literally threatens to encase Nicasia in a tree to keep Orlagh in check like a true boss, is prepared to fulfil his theat and calls up AN ENTIRE ISLAND. AN ENTIRE NEW ISLAND, LIKE THE THREE ISLES, EXCEPT NOW IT'S THE FOUR ISLES.

And he also comes up with a smart plan for Jude's safety, thus ensuring that she can come back when she wants to. It's not his fault that she interpreted it differently and chose to ignore the real meaning when she finally found it.

And in The Prisoner's Throne when he saves Jude from the knives? 100 percent amazing scene. He really has a heavy regal ruler aura there. My favorite scene of Cardan.

Yet fandoms need must girlbossify the females and woobify the males to make us see that the females are oh so powerful and the males need them for everything apparently.

The fandoms make the males characters that are entirely dependent on the females and don't exist without them. And I can't emphasize how frustrated this makes some of us.

Annabeth is smart on her own without Percy and vice versa.

Same goes for Jude and Cardan. They deal with threats in their own effective ways, though said ways are different-but those ways still work for both of them.

This is a reverse form of misogyny that is still sexism to both males and females and this really needs to stop. Whenever a couple get together, people tend to not see them as equals-either the male or the female is dominant, and if it's the female, she has to be oh so strong and muscular and dark and serious while the male has to be soft and submissive to her at all times, oh noooooooooo.

Not to say that muscular and masculine women CAN'T be dominant, but please remember that this is not always the case. Submissive partners are not always soft and feminine, and dominant partners don't always need to be commanding and aggressive.

Being equals in a relationship is a big charm, and that's why Percabeth worked so well for a lot of people. That's a huge part of their charm. To take that away would be to push what made Percabeth good into an abyss and watch it disintegrate.

TFOTA fandom members, please remember that Cardan is a person on his own without Jude. Same goes for Percy and Annabeth, PJO fandom members.

MY THEORY ON WHY HEROES OF OLYMPUS WAS TERRIBLY WRITTEN

So I was searching up Rick's book's publishing dates and I've found something interesting-

TLT was published on June 28, 2005.

SOM was published on April 1, 2006. This is just 10 months including the final draft and rereading it again and again and finally publishing it, so it must have been a little rushed, hence perhaps why many people say that it wasn't the best book in the series.

TTC was published on May 1, 2007. This is over a whole year.

BOTL was published on May 6, 2008. This is a whole year.

TLO was published on May 5 2009. This is a whole year.

Now I want you to keep in mind that these were thin books, thinner than the HOO books, which were hella thick.

TLH was published on October 12, 2010.

SON was published on October 2, 2011. This is a little less than a whole year and likely a very rushed process, especially for such a thick book.

MOA was published on October 12, 2012.

HOH was published on October 8 2013.

BOO was published on October 7, 2014.

Rick was churning out books THESE THICK in one year max. He had also just finished a series before this, and with how well Percy Jackson was received, was most likely under immense pressure to write a better series this time.

Hang on now. There's more.

The Red Pyramid from the Kane Chronicles was published on MAY FOURTH, 2010. And The Lost Hero was published on OCTOBER TWELFTH 2010.

Rick wrote and published The Red Pyramid in less than a year, then wrote and published The Lost Hero a few months after that.

The Throne of Fire (the second book) was published on May 3, 2011. SON was released in the same year.

And finally, the Serpent's Shadow was published on May 1, 2012. And MoA was published on October 2, 2012.

This means that Rick was writing The Kane Chronicles and Heroes of Olympus AT THE SAME TIME.

And considering how fast he released those books, one a year after the other, it's likely that he had tons of deadlines to meet, which pressured him too much.

And if we take how well the Kane Chronicles are written to how poorly the majority of HOO was, I think that Rick was more focused on writing The Kane Chronicles.

And considering that loads of people say that House of Hades was the best book in HOO, I think that the pressure was lifted from Rick and that he was able to write a better book after finishing The Kane Chronicles.

My take on why HOO was so terrible was that-

Rick was writing this series after releasing a massively successful, bestselling first series. There was going to be tremendous pressure on him to write an even better second one.

Rick was writing another series at the same time that he wrote HOO, which was why his attention was so divided.

HOO and TKC books were released barely a year after the ones before them came (May and October of every year).

This happens with Magnus Chase and The Trials of Apollo too, though both are nicely written unlike HOO (with some exceptions, because there always are, unfortunately).

what would you change about jurdan in canon to like the ship more

Well, I would make Cardan apologise and I'd make them have an actual discussion about what he did to her in TCP instead of just forgetting so soon and moving on.

It's just, rereading the Cruel Prince and seeing all of his horrific abuse of her, even if he had his reasons, was absolutely horrible.

I mean, yes, he did try to help her, but he still threw her into the river. He still watched as they made her strip and do degrading stuff. He still threatened her at the tournament. That kind of thing has effects on people. Bad effects.

Let him place his reasons in front of her, let her acknowledge this but also tell him that he hurt her badly, let him plead and grovel with her and realise that he really did fuck up even if he had his reasons and tried to save her.

Not discussing your toxic past isn't really a good thing. Couples need to clear the air, not just brush it under the carpet.

I'd make her say that they have to work on their relationship and let her forgive him over time, not all at once.

It's fictional, so it's not that bad to ship them because they're supposed to be a dark romance. But the way they turned from dark romance to perfectly ok couple at the end really made me raise my eyebrows.

Hi, it’s “Rick really shot himself in the foot when he tried to differentiate Greek and Roman mythology and failed” anon again, and I just learned that apparently Rick is not only misrepresenting the gods and Greek culture, but actual Ancient Greek philosophers, and that really pisses me off as someone with a degree in philosophy.

I haven’t been a part of this fandom in a long time. I never finished HoO (I dropped it before the series was even finished), but I saw something upsetting the other day. I’ve seen a few posts talking about this one passage from HoO (Or, at least, I think it was from HoO. If I read that part, I don’t remember because It was a long time ago.) talking about “a story by Plato about how male and female were created because they used to be the same being that was split in half, and now they’re two halves of a whole looking for their soulmate or whatever” and this was supposed to create angst or something because then Nico didn’t know how he was supposed to fit into that equation.

Again, I don’t exactly know the context (I tried Googling it, but I couldn’t find anything), but I do know that it’s referencing The Symposium. The Symposium just so happens to be one of my favorite pieces of philosophical writing, and once had to write over 20 pages on this bad boy for an academic paper, so believe me when I tell you - that story is a load of BS, and I will not tolerate Plato slander.

First of all, that wasn’t even Plato that said that. It was Aristophanes. Yes, The Symposium was written by Plato, but he was essentially just documenting stuff that was said at a dinner where a bunch of dudes got together and decided to philosophize about what love is (there are 6 speakers in total, that all lead up to Socrates, and Aristophanes is just one of them). People debate about whether all the people and situations Plato wrote about were even real, or if they’re just a device to bounce ideas off of each other, and there’s even this whole theory that Socrates wasn’t a real person - but I’m not going to get into all of that. What’s important is that we DO know that Aristophanes was a real person, and it’s important to note that Aristophanes was NOT a philosopher. He was a playwright and basically the Ancient Greek equivalent of a comedian. I have seen a lot of people act like it was some profound theory of how humans came to be, but it was never meant to be taken seriously.

Now, I have seen that story be taken out of context many times, and it always annoys me, but this might be the most egregious one yet. The Symposium is not heteronormative in the slightest. In fact, it is VERY queer, which is what drew me to it in the first place.

The ACTUAL story that this is trying to reference is when Aristophanes tells a story where originally humans had 2 heads, 4 arms, and 4 legs, and there were 3 genders - male, female, and androgynous (which represented the sun, earth, and moon, respectively). The gods were intimidated by the humans, so they split them in half. The ones that were originally male became men who were attracted to men, the ones that were female became women attracted to women, and the ones that were androgynous became men and women attracted to the opposite sex. That is the very short version, but needless to say, very inclusive of homosexuality.

I see how what Rick was trying to do could’ve worked for asexuality or aromanticism, however, this is only just one small part of The Symposium, and there is actually a lot of stuff in The Symposium that I would argue are very ace and aro coded, but I’m not going to get into all of that, though, because this would be very long and that’s beside the point.

(Just one thing, though, because I can't resist. It’s not relevant to this, but it’s cool, and it relates to my previous ask. At one point, one of the speakers, Pausanias, tries to define love as a complex being and says that Aphrodite is the personification of love. He acknowledges that there are two different versions of Aphrodite that the Ancient Greeks believed in, from different parts of Greece (again, this is pre-Roman), and instead of trying to determine which is the “true” Aphrodite, he embraces both of them and says they are the personifications of two different kinds of love, which eventually results in him basically figuring out the split attraction model 2000+ years before it was called that, and I love it so much.) Anyway, everyone should read The Symposium, it’s public domain.

All that to say, this means one of two things. Either Rick knew this story and intentionally changed it to be heteronormative to create angst, or he read some other version of the story, that was not a primary resource, where someone else had already changed to be heteronormative - and that really freaking bothers me, because it could not be farther from the truth.

As a queer person who found a lot of comfort in The Symposium, I find it disgusting that it was twisted for the sake of making a queer character feel bad about themself for extra angst (and don’t even get me started on how Nico’s character was handled, that is a whole other thing I can go off about, but I won’t because this is about Plato). Shame on you, Richard.

Again, I haven’t touched HoO since I was in high school and it was still being released, and I honestly don’t remember reading that part. So, if I am taking this out of context and later in the book they say “Wait, but that’s not actually how the story goes!” then I will be pleasantly surprised for once, and you can disregard all of this.

You are wonderful, anon, and I love you and this message that you've sent so much. I will definitely check out Plato's Symposium sometime soon.

Don't worry-you're not taking this out of context. What you're talking about is, unfortunately, written in either HOH or BOO-I clearly remember that.

Rick Riordan does tend to misrepresent cultures in his stories-especially Greek culture, so I wouldn't be surprised if this was true. His views on Hellenistic Paganism and Greek Gods when he was writing PJO and HOO were unfortunately very derogatory and it's clearly reflected in his writing.

The fact that he changed a story to fit his version does not surprise me at all, though it's painful to learn that he has committed yet another infraction regarding Greek Mythology.

It's terribly discouraging to me when I see how many people think that what Rick Riordan writes is true and urge them to read up on real sources regarding Greek Mythology. This twisted version of Plato's Symposium is only one of many examples in Percy Jackson.

Knowing Rick Riordan, he either read the full version and twisted it to form his own terrible version, which he has done before (Hephaestus' attempted rape of Athena) and is quite good at or he read a version that wasn't the primary resource and just took it to be the real thing (like he did when researching for Piper Mclean).

Nico's moment there was pretty poignant, very relatable for many LGBTQ readers wondering how they would fit in to heteronormative society...........

But unfortunately, a lot of nice moments in PJO come at the cost of incorrectly interpreting Ancient Greek Gods and culture. It's pretty sad, honestly. Rick really likes to slander Greece in his works. First with the flame of the West, then with slandering all the gods and all those mythological inaccuracies, now with this twisted Symposium version of his.

Rick Riordan doesn't even do his research properly, so of course he said that Plato said it and not that Plato wrote down what Aristophanes said out loud. I wonder if it would actually kill him to do some more research. Is he really that bad at it?

Anyway, I will read the Symposium to gain more insight onto how Rick could have handled it better. I really like aro-ace coded stuff, too, so I'll love this one.