Kneel

Ascended Astarion in fanon: A deranged psychopath, Cazador 2.0, who locks Tav/Dark Urge in the basement and tortures them from time to time, perpetuating the cycle of abuse. The ✌️ cycle of abuse ✌️ in canon:

I wish Tav had dialogue options at this moment like:

I love you.

I trust you.

Tav is literally going to die in a couple of minutes. I want Tav to have the chance to say something before Astarion starts turning them.

Well, in any case, he knows that… Astarion: You are so beautiful... And you will be beautiful forever. Thank you for trusting me.

The vampires bride

Would Astarion renew the bite? Discuss. ♥

These excerpts from Van Richten's Guide to Vampires seem particularly intriguing in the context of Astarion’s “good” ending, as I’ve always been skeptical of the very idea of “fixing” a vampire. Even without considering the early concept of Astarion’s backstory, where he was already pursuing eternal life and acting immorally as a corrupt magistrate long before becoming a vampire.

In D&D lore, vampires are inherently evil creatures by default. Their alignment undergoes a drastic shift upon their transformation: emotions and feelings become distorted, moral principles (if they weren’t already corrupt before the transformation) are warped, and the thirst for power and control grows significantly. However, this aspect is often overlooked when it comes to Astarion’s spawn route, while all "vampiric" traits are attributed exclusively to his Ascended version. This, in reality, is a selective application of the lore.

Stephen Rooney: "It's important to have that… and also… he's a vampire, he's all about blood and he's all about darker sides of humanity. So, it's important that that's represented in the game."

Given these facts, the idea of shifting Astarion's alignment to good or even neutral seems highly unlikely. Considering the nature of vampirism, keeping him away from dark desires would be a significant challenge for Tav. It might even require rolling Charisma checks every few years to prevent him from succumbing to temptation. The only real way to move him toward a stable "redemption" would be to cure him of vampirism, which, as far as I know, is possible within D&D. However, the game itself never addresses this possibility. Instead, the spawn-ending merely offers the chance to seek a way to remain in the sun without sacrifices or deals with dark powers, as Ascended Astarion does.

However, according to Neil Newbon, Astarion is in harmony with his vampirism.

"Astarion’s challenge wasn't directly related to him being a vampire. It was that he was a spawn, and that he wasn't free. He is technically free now. [...] He's okay with being a vampire."

The prospect of being cured of vampirism does not even appeal to Astarion.

The first classification includes those who became vampires because of “deadly desire,” like Strahd Von Zarovich (see Chapter XIII, “The Who’s Doomed of Ravenloft,” in the Ravenloft boxed set).

The second comprises those who became vampires as the result of a curse, whether laid by a mortal or by an evil deity.

The third and final category is the most numerous: those unfortunates who became vampires as a result of the attack of another vampire.

The first two categories have one major factor in common: in almost all cases, these vampires were evil while they were alive. The transition to undeath never affects this, except, in some cases, to intensify their evil.

The final category is a completely different case. Victims of vampires have no commonality with regard to ethos, moral strictures, philosophy of life, care toward others, or any other factor. A victim of a vampire could be a saint or a sinner, a paladin or an assassin, a compassionate healer or a ruthless alley-basher.

The fact is that the vast majority of vampires are chaotic and extremely evil. How does this come about? In most cases, it seems that the transition to undeath itself brings about this grim change in the victim’s mentality; the Fledgling’s previous worldview is largely irrelevant.

There are, however, some fascinating exceptions—documented cases of Fledgling vampires that managed to retain some of the attitudes and beliefs they had while alive, at least for a time. What sets these exceptions apart? Was it, as some sages suggest, a characteristic of the vampire that created them? Or was it something inherent within the victim?

My own theory is this: the victim must possess immense strength of will, and the vampire that killed them must be prevented, in some way, from implementing the innate control such creatures have over “secondary” vampires. (This can happen if the creating vampire leaves the area or is destroyed between the time of the victim’s death and the night the victim first rises as a vampire.)

Some of the most fascinating examples of this sort of "carryover" were recorded by a sage whose name has been tragically lost in a treatise whose title I have borrowed (with thanks) for this chapter: The Mind of the Vampire. Two examples follow:

A young, naive man, raised in a sheltered and privileged family, was slain by a vampire passing through the neighborhood. At first, he was unaware of his true nature (or unwilling to accept it), believing that his "death" had been nothing more than a profound illness and that his "premature" burial was merely a mistake by his overzealous family. However, evidence of his vampiric nature soon became apparent. The poor wretch was unable to fully renounce the life he had left behind and took to "haunting" his old home, watching from the shadows and pretending he was still, at least peripherally, part of mortal life. He might have seemed a wholly pathetic figure were it not for his vicious attacks on anyone who dared to take away the semblance of his former life.

An intrepid vampire hunter was slain by one of the creatures she so tenaciously hunted; the monster that killed her was immediately destroyed by her colleagues. For reasons unknown, these colleagues neglected to take the necessary precautions to prevent the woman from rising as a vampire. The trauma she experienced upon realizing her vampiric condition was almost—but not quite—enough to drive her mad. She had taken up her life's work as a moral duty, committed to ridding the world of the scourge of vampirism, and now she had become the very thing she had always hated! Despite the shock, she resolved to make the best of the hand Fate had dealt her. She dedicated her unlife to continuing her mortal mission, using her newfound powers to track down and destroy others of her kind. Tragically, her sense of duty soon became corrupted by a quest for power, and she was ultimately destroyed by Strahd Von Zarovich.

Van Richten's Guide to Vampires. TSR, 1991, Chapter XII: "The Mind of the Vampire: The Psychology of Immortality."

But this thesis raises a fascinating question: if we set aside the matter of feeding habits, could a vampire exhibit other behavior patterns that might be described as “good”? The answer is “theoretically yes,” and I can even cite one short-lived example.

A man of good alignment was killed by a vampire and subsequently became a vampire himself, initially under the control of his dark master. When the master vampire was destroyed, the “minion” vampire became free-willed. Despite his undead condition, he still held the beliefs and attitudes that had, during his life, categorized him as Good. In secret, he resolved to use his powers to at least partially amend the damage caused by both himself and his master. For several decades, he acted as a secret benefactor to his hometown.

Unfortunately, this situation changed over time. At first, the undead benefactor sought no recognition, keeping his identity and nature completely secret. He lived in a cave on the outskirts of town and had no contact with the living. However, after a decade, it seems he began to resent the lack of gratitude shown by the townsfolk for his generosity. He started leaving behind notes requesting some form of “concrete appreciation,” generally in the form of money, in exchange for his efforts. (Of course, he had no need for money; the coins were purely symbolic of the thanks he felt he deserved.) His demands grew increasingly steep until the townsfolk decided his requests were excessive and stopped paying.

At this point, the vampire’s feelings toward the townsfolk turned to hatred. In his rage, he fell upon them like a scourge, terrorizing them until he was eventually destroyed by a group of intrepid adventurers.

I have a theory that explains this transformation. Eternity is a long time, and as the years passed, the vampire’s feelings began to change. Gradually, he lost his sense of kinship with the living and started prioritizing his own desires—even when those desires were irrational—over theirs. Eventually, he came to view their very lives as insignificant and unworthy of his consideration.

I strongly believe that this shift in attitude happens, inevitably, to all vampires. For some, it occurs almost immediately; for others, it may take decades. Although I lack concrete evidence to support this conjecture, I suspect that no vampire can maintain a nature other than Chaotic Evil beyond the Fledgling age category.

Van Richten's Guide to Vampires. TSR, 1991, Chapter XII: "The Mind of the Vampire: A Question of Alignment."

"I HATE Ascended Astarion..."

(People are so afraid to face the truth that they came up with a headcanon about losing his soul, which was completely debunked by the developers.)

Neil on Ascended Astarion's Laugh

Neil: I didn't ever really improvise anything. I'd improvise how I'd say the line obviously, but I didn't improvise any words really for Astarion. There's hardly anything that I've changed, maybe like one thing, just because it didn't quite work. So largely all the script is as scripted. I did the lines as scripted.

But there was definitely a moment I think I tried to squeeze in muahahas and things like that. *laughs* Like what if I can get away with a cackling laugh that kind of sounds like a muahaha?

Oh, he has a new laugh, I didn't tell you that. Ascended Astarion has a new laugh. Do you want to hear it?

Blue Owl Medic: I feel like it's more true to the character.

Neil: But do you want to hear the actual Ascended Astarion's laugh? I don't know if you picked up on it on your playthrough.

BOM: Yes. No, I haven't actually gotten there.

Neil: I changed the laugh. So, the laugh with Unascended is *high-pitched giggling laugh*. It's all like high and lilting and trill and shrill sort of up and piercing. And then Lord Astarion is *laughs haughtily* Like that. So I dropped it. So he goes, "Oh dear. Well that's not very good, is it. *laughs*" It's all like down here. *points at throat* And low and short as well. So it was really like--it was fun. You'll see it. So there's a difference.

BOM: It's like a wealthy laugh.

Neil: It's a wealthy laugh. It's an of-means laugh.

BOM: Aristocratic, I see somebody say.

Neil: It's a better-than-you laugh. 'I have more money than you. *laughs*'

BOM: 'I have a palace. What do you have? A camp? Fuck you.'

Neil: 'I have a castle. *laughs* Don't you have one? Sorry, that's sad for you.' Yeah, like that.

--from Neil's February 1, 2024 twitch stream

For dragons are fire made flesh, and fire is power.

The idea of creating a coat of arms and heraldic symbols for Ascended Astarion has been growing in my mind for quite some time. Every self-respecting vampire lord should have their own emblem — especially someone as ambitious as Ascended Astarion.

At the center of the entire composition, I envision the sun — a crucial symbol that runs through his entire narrative. He ascends and no longer fears the daylight, transforming the vampire’s greatest curse into a triumph. He proclaims himself the Sun King, and in the epilogue, he holds the title of Sunwalking Regent. To make the solar disc the emblem of a vampire is truly bold, provocative — and entirely in his character.

Astarion: This is it. The hopeless dream dreamt by all of my kind.

Against the backdrop of the sun — a red dragon. In the finale of the game, Astarion wears a magnificent outfit adorned with an embroidered red dragon, and to me, this image feels deeply symbolic. The dragon is a representation of power, destructive force, and ambition.

I also want to mention legends from A Song of Ice and Fire, like this one:

«A trader from Qarth once told me that dragons came from the moon,» blond Doreah said as she warmed a towel over the fire.

Silvery-wet hair tumbled across her eyes as Dany turned her head, curious. «The moon?»

«He told me the moon was an egg, Khaleesi,» the Lysene girl said. «Once there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and cracked from the heat. A thousand thousand dragons poured forth, and drank the fire of the sun. That is why dragons breathe flame. One day the other moon will kiss the sun too, and then it will crack and the dragons will return.»

The evil chromatic dragons in D&D are primarily united by their greed and egocentrism. They have an insatiable thirst for wealth, which permeates all their actions, plans, and manipulations. These dragons are convinced that worldly treasures rightfully belong to them, and therefore they claim others' riches, disregarding all others whom they consider guilty of "stealing" what is theirs. Dragons are not interested in commerce and do not seek to use their wealth for trade; they accumulate treasures solely for the sake of possession.

Every chromatic dragon considers itself the most powerful being, worthy of ruling over all. A central element of each such dragon’s worldview is the firm belief in their inherent right to dominate and control.

Red dragons are among the most arrogant and the most greedy for treasure:

«No other dragon comes close to the arrogance of the red dragon. These creatures see themselves as kings and emperors, and view the rest of dragonkind as inferior. Believing that they are chosen by Tiamat to rule in her name, red dragons consider the world and every creature in it as theirs to command.» © Monster Manual (2014)

It's nice to see this symbol — recognizable, almost archetypal — appear on the clothing of my favorite character in the game's finale.

And you, consorts… how do you envision Lord Astarion's coat of arms? What symbols, in your opinion, should be on his banner, and what motto?

Is there anything you can share there? He loves wool and socks or something.

Newbon: Yeah. There’s a thing where Astarion always checks his nails when he is trying to just dominate people. He dismisses them with a head turn, usually to the left. He does this to put people in their place, to make them acutely aware that he’s in control.

Actually, one thing I can tell you—the base pose that he has, which is this very upward movement, arms open—that was something that we experimented with. That was actually a combination of myself and Josh Weeden, who’s one of the directors on the game. We came up with that together. They wanted a unique base pose. The footing is different from everybody else’s. But then I added this sort of open arms up and his head up, looking down his nose at everybody.

So the reason that his head stands like this is a psychological thing. He thinks everybody else is beneath him, so he looks down his nose, which is why the head is slightly angular. That is a very particular habitual choice that we made to inform more about the character. Literally, I look down my nose, and that’s why his stance is like that.

I think there are a couple of other characters that have unique base poses, but most have the same base pose. He’s one of the unique ones.

Lately, I often come across the opinion that Ascended Astarion’s line, “I can't believe you let me do that. Killing all those people,” supposedly indicates that he recognizes the immorality of his actions and even condemns Tav/Dark Urge for allowing him to do it. Allegedly, he feels guilty and regrets not being “saved.”

This opinion is obviously influenced by the dialogues in the spawn ending, where Astarion thanks Tav for talking him out of performing the ritual. However, it’s important to pay attention to the full content of his line in the Ascended ending:

Astarion: I can't believe you let me do that. Killing all those people. A pleasant surprise.

Astarion does not express regret or condemnation, but rather surprise and pleasure that Tav went to such a serious crime for him.

This is followed by claims that he is lying or pretending, while deep down he feels guilt and disappointment. However, such conclusions merely show how objective facts are interpreted and distorted to align with one’s own beliefs.

Yes, Astarion fully understands that his actions are immoral, but this awareness does not imply disappointment in the ritual or Tav. On the contrary. He simply calls things as they are. He is honest with himself and with Tav/Dark Urge.

Moreover, it’s important to consider the context in which this phrase is spoken. It is clearly addressed to the player, who throughout the game made mostly morally good decisions, and then unexpectedly committed a radically evil act, surprising Astarion. If you played as a consistently evil character throughout the game, this line may seem illogical, strange, and devoid of meaning — yet another example of questionable RPG design and storytelling methods used by Welch.

To be honest, some people go to absurd lengths in their interpretations to present AA’s ending as a "bad" one for him.

Regarding the claim that the lore of vampire brides is supposedly outdated because it’s based on Van Richten's Guide to Vampires, published in 1991, and that this lore isn’t mentioned in the current edition of DnD 5e, specifically in the 2021 edition of Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft:

First of all, vampire brides are also mentioned in Van Richten’s Monster Hunter’s Compendium from 1999.

But most importantly, the 2021 edition of Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft directly references Van Richten's Guide to Vampires.

So…

If we disregard the lore of Ravenloft (even though the game clearly alludes to it) and focus solely on the game itself:

Player: How does someone become a vampire, exactly? Astarion: It's simple. Just find a vampire that will drink your blood and turn you into a vampire spawn: their obedient puppet. In theory, the next step is to drink their blood. Once you've done that, you're free and a true vampire. Player: 'In theory'? Astarion: People think the biggest threat to a vampire is a cleric with a stake. It's not. The biggest threat to a vampire is another vampire. They're scheming, paranoid, power-hungry beasts. So why would any vampire give up control over a spawn to create a competitor?

Player: So they bite you, you bite them? Astarion: Yes and no. The problem is once you're a vampire spawn, they completely control you. They have to allow you to bite them. And why would they do that? Vampires are power-hungry creatures. They won't lose a servant to create a competitor. Trust me. It doesn't happen.

Once AA gives Tav his blood, they can no longer be considered a spawn—according to the lore, they become a true vampire. This is confirmed both by in-game dialogues and the D&D 5E lore on which the game is based.

Astarion: Nearly two hundred years and I never came back. Not since the night I woke up down there. I had to punch a hole in the coffin and claw my way through six feet of dirt. Then when I finally broke the surface, retching up dirt and congealed blood, Cazador was waiting. From that day on I was his. Until today. Moreover, we never see AA mentally controlling Tav the way Cazador controlled his spawns—which would be undeniable proof of their status as a spawn. The game only presents a dialogue about freedom, which does not contradict the concept of Tav as a bride but also does not confirm any magical control that could prove otherwise.

So if you believe that the Bride Theory is unfounded and that the process of becoming a vampire bride doesn’t align with what is shown in the game, then consider this: it has even less in common with the process of becoming a spawn. The turning into a spawn is described in detail in the game, and clearly not without reason—and Tav's/Dark Urge's turning is not just different in some aspects, it has absolutely no similarities with it.

No matter which lore you take, Tav is not a spawn.

Maybe I should make a post with counterarguments to all the most common arguments against the Bride Theory.